Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
After starting out well in the 10000m, then regressing, she went back to the basics to improve her speed at shorter distance.
I just checked something that could be quite telling. At the Stanford Invite in 2018, where she ran a 31:55.68, guess what shoes she was wearing?? Hint, I don't think they are legal any longer on the track, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
JBaller33 wrote:
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
Based on the results of Kiera D'Amato (and to a lesser extent, Sara Hall) I think Gwen Jorgensen has the potential to run a 2:23:00 marathon (give or take) within a year, with proper training.
I disagree. It does not appear she responds to the high mileage needed for the marathon or even the 10K. The 5K clearly seems like her wheelhouse at the moment. I think she needs to focus on the 5K and find some kind of closing speed to give herself a chance at the Olympic team, assuming that is her goal. She’s doing very well at the 5K but has the misfortune that the US has their best all-time depth at the event at the moment.
You don't find closing speed. A fast finish is a result of having more left in the tank at a given pace. What's going to prevent her from making an Olympic team, is that she isn't capable of running sub-14:40.
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
https://ibb.co/XZwVvFC
Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgQpeuH0k7gWill this new way of making the Olympic team impact her? I read it’s harder for those who haven’t had a lot of stellar races to make it (or that aren’t ranked high). Is it possible she gets the time but doesn’t make it because of the new system?
@ timestamp 3:17 she turns around thinking, "I just beat Karissa Schweizer."
emr0129 wrote:
Will this new way of making the Olympic team impact her? I read it’s harder for those who haven’t had a lot of stellar races to make it (or that aren’t ranked high). Is it possible she gets the time but doesn’t make it because of the new system?
What "new way of making the Olympic team" are you referring to? For a long time now in running, it is the top three from a run-off at the Trials Races. Has something changed?
Schwiezer's 14:26 is worth a 2:18:21, per the Jack Daniels Calculator. Maybe she ought to consider moving on up after Tokyo. Kastor's best is a 14:52; Sara Hall's is 15:21.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.runnersworld.com/news/amp26811597/new-olympic-standards/Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
emr0129 wrote:
Will this new way of making the Olympic team impact her? I read it’s harder for those who haven’t had a lot of stellar races to make it (or that aren’t ranked high). Is it possible she gets the time but doesn’t make it because of the new system?
What "new way of making the Olympic team" are you referring to? For a long time now in running, it is the top three from a run-off at the Trials Races. Has something changed?
This is really my first year getting immersed in the track and field olympics so I maybe misunderstanding.
emr0129 wrote:
Is it possible she gets the time but doesn’t make it because of the new system?
No. You get in by hitting the standard OR achieving the necessary ranking.
Not An Expert wrote:
My proposed definitions:
Regionally competitive (“a really good club runner”): a runner who is striving to hit the national championship qualifying standards but if they make it has very little shot at making the finals
Nationally competitive: a runner who hits NC qualifying standards and has a shot to make the finals, but won’t be competing for a spot on the national team at a major international championship
Internationally competitive: a runner who is competitive enough at national championships (or in whatever races/meets are part of the selection criteria) that they represent their country internationally, but primarily in second-tier championships (Pan Ams, NACACS, World Champs Half Marathon or Marathon, etc). If they were to eke their way into the Olympics or Outdoor WCs, would likely not even make (or, depending on the event, be competitive in) the semis and has basically no shot at the finals.
Globally competitive: a runner who usually makes their national team for major global championships (World Outdoors, Olympics) and has a good at making the finals and an outside shot at medaling. If they compete in second-tier championships (Area Champs, World Indoor) they make the finals and are a medal favorite, and may win a title.
Global star: It is barely in doubt that they will make their national team or that they will make the finals at the major global championships, and they are among the favorites to medal. If they compete in a second-tier championship, they’re a clear medal favorite and probably the championship favorite.
Global superstar: A medal favorite at major global championships and a championship favorite if they ever compete in a second-tier championship. Likely an all-time great in their country.
Global all-time great: A multi-time medalist and/or champion at major international championships, posting performances above the best of their era. A many-time national champion, and also a many-time second-tier champion if they competed at the level frequently.
Gwen seems to be, by virtue of hitting the Olympic standard, an internationally competitive runner. Although I guess you could make the argument that since through a combination of US depth and her priorities, she hasn’t represented the US internationally, even in second-tier championships, so she could be a higher-end national class runner.
I dig this. Some very good and clear definitions
Ditto. It's well done.
Improvement yes...
But nowhere near enough. I still feel that with a consistent block of one years training with another team would see Gwen improve at the marathon distance. The BTC girls are just too fast for her speed wise, she is killing herself in sessions trying to stay with them, hence the breakdowns. If i was her i would serious consider joining another Elite marathon group, but her Nike allegiances put a stop to that.
If the marathon is the ultimate goal she better start after this season. Even though 35 isn’t old, every year that passes it will be harder and harder to get there without injury. The young talent coming in every year for the 5k and 10k will eliminate her from ever being great at that distance.
Earlyboy wrote:
Improvement yes...
But nowhere near enough. I still feel that with a consistent block of one years training with another team would see Gwen improve at the marathon distance. The BTC girls are just too fast for her speed wise, she is killing herself in sessions trying to stay with them, hence the breakdowns. If i was her i would serious consider joining another Elite marathon group, but her Nike allegiances put a stop to that.
Do you know for a fact that she is trashing herself trying to keep up with better runners during interval workouts? Certainly, her coach would tell her to back off. In school, most of my teammates ran their own pace in interval workouts even without being told to do so.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Earlyboy wrote:
Improvement yes...
But nowhere near enough. I still feel that with a consistent block of one years training with another team would see Gwen improve at the marathon distance. The BTC girls are just too fast for her speed wise, she is killing herself in sessions trying to stay with them, hence the breakdowns. If i was her i would serious consider joining another Elite marathon group, but her Nike allegiances put a stop to that.
Do you know for a fact that she is trashing herself trying to keep up with better runners during interval workouts? Certainly, her coach would tell her to back off. In school, most of my teammates ran their own pace in interval workouts even without being told to do so.
I mean, you can see in all the videos she's in the group or leading athletes who are racing faster.
I think the Olympic Champ thing was just how she was justifying moving away from a sport where she was already Olympic Champ. Let's face it - she's made it fairly clear since then how much she disliked the amount of training needed to be a world class triathlete on the bike and in the pool.
I think possibly it was undervalued how much the sheer volume of low level aerobic work on the bike and swimming was helping her (both from an aerobic perspective and also biomechanics). Her biomechanics almost looked smoother as a triathlete than they do now and I don't think that's entirely due to a perspective shift (put the same runner doing 15:10 against a group running 14:30 and they look slow and clunky, against a group running 16:30, they look fantastic).
It's nice to see her PR. She probably isn't going to make the Olympics but if she can get under 15 for the 5k and finish top 8 at the trials - that's pretty damn good for a triathlete?
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
After starting out well in the 10000m, then regressing, she went back to the basics to improve her speed at shorter distance. She has accomplished that. But I don't see her competing well on the world stage in the 5k.
Seems weird to me that she wants to be a marathoner but keeps messing around with the 5k/10k. Low-15 speed should be good enough for the 26.2. The Olympic triathlon is just under 2 hours so maybe that is her sweet spot yet she hasn't run one since becoming a full time runner. Weird.
ladflkjadfo wrote:
Jack Daniels Calculator wrote:
After starting out well in the 10000m, then regressing, she went back to the basics to improve her speed at shorter distance. She has accomplished that. But I don't see her competing well on the world stage in the 5k.
Seems weird to me that she wants to be a marathoner but keeps messing around with the 5k/10k. Low-15 speed should be good enough for the 26.2. The Olympic triathlon is just under 2 hours so maybe that is her sweet spot yet she hasn't run one since becoming a full time runner. Weird.
I find it strange too. Although in that article that someone else posted it said Jerry wanted her to start at the 10k distance and she's the one who wanted to jump into marathon training. I think she is still gunning for the marathon but is hesitant to really publicly state goals now. I'm sure she felt a little embarrassed with what happened around the marathon, and probably learned the lesson that publicly stated goals also bring scrutiny and a lot of 'I told you so' when they fail. Either way, at her age, she needs to decide on the longer distance and go for it before it's too late. Even if she makes the team there's no way in hell she'll be a medalist and there's no way at 36 next year and beyond she'll be beating out the young women in 5k/10k. Maybe Jerry just wants her to get all the speed she can and then go back? Who knows.
tri people wrote:
15:08. Olympic standard. Big PR.
Yup and got 5th. Very good result for her. Very good. But, how many more PR's do people tend to make in a 5 month span? She's going to need to make a couple more. That time isn't good enough to make the team, and it's nowhere near good enough to be competitive internationally.
She's going to need much bigger jumps in her PR over the next few months just to make the team - is that possible and is that now the goal? To make the Olympic team in the 5k (now) at all costs knowing there is no chance she can medal in that event?
I don't believe she will make the team, but what would be the point? She's already won Olympic gold - what does she gain by going to the Olympics in the 5k to not medal? Wouldn't it be better for USA women's running to have a younger actual 5k runner who could benefit from the experience be there? For example I'd much rather have Allie Buchalski make that team and go and get that experience.
Good to see her get a PR and meet the standard. Just wondering what the plan and goals are from here.
what is the goal now? wrote:
tri people wrote:
15:08. Olympic standard. Big PR.
Yup and got 5th. Very good result for her. Very good. But, how many more PR's do people tend to make in a 5 month span? She's going to need to make a couple more. That time isn't good enough to make the team, and it's nowhere near good enough to be competitive internationally.
She's going to need much bigger jumps in her PR over the next few months just to make the team - is that possible and is that now the goal? To make the Olympic team in the 5k (now) at all costs knowing there is no chance she can medal in that event?
I don't believe she will make the team, but what would be the point? She's already won Olympic gold - what does she gain by going to the Olympics in the 5k to not medal? Wouldn't it be better for USA women's running to have a younger actual 5k runner who could benefit from the experience be there? For example I'd much rather have Allie Buchalski make that team and go and get that experience.
Good to see her get a PR and meet the standard. Just wondering what the plan and goals are from here.
Is it a PR? Using those new nike track spikes she have broken 15. Physically, she is getting slower is the truth