Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Bill to Ban Biological Men From Women’s Sports

It’s not compassionate at all. Trans women can have their own category of competing against trans women. Otherwise it is simply unfair and the complete opposite of compassionate & ethical.

People like Roy are always saying look at the science. And I agree. The science says that if everyone was trans or homosexual, we would not perform the fundamental objective of the human race, which is to reproduce and perpetuate the species. While I, undoubtedly, don’t want to further alienate gays and transgender folk as we have for far too long, I am also tired of punishing people who are neither. It’s the same flawed argument as it’s not good enough to not be racist... you have to be anti-racist or you don’t count.

The problem with someone like Roy is that he’s bought his party’s ideological narrative, lock, stock, & barrel. There’s no room for accommodating a dissenting opinion counter to the fundamental “values” of the party. It is exactly the same thing on the right. It is the echo chamber and why we have so much divisiveness in this country. Roy may sound articulate and well-reasoned, but it doesn’t make him correct or even smart, really.

Good post

You just made up virtually every single word of what you said.

Wow, you really have a knack for providing convincing evidence and making compelling arguments.

Used to be, people just shouted "liar, liar pants on fire" and said "nyah, nyah, nyah."

RunRagged wrote:

Trumpian Lies wrote:

You just made up virtually every single word of what you said.

Wow, you really have a knack for providing convincing evidence and making compelling arguments.

Used to be, people just shouted "liar, liar pants on fire" and said "nyah, nyah, nyah."

Used to be people didn't rely on bullsh!t off the internet or crap they hear on Fox news as their "evidence." Trumpian Lies are now common place where no amount of evidence, science or fact can change the minds of the deluded sheep. You clearly are one of those, so wasting my time debating you would be pointless. Good luck.

Precious Roy wrote:

Further, this bill, while well intentions are present to protect biologically female athletes from being eclipsed by trans women, effectively has the consequence of banning trans people from collegiate athletics. That is no better a situation than having trans women competing with biological women.

Not at all true. The trans women (men that become women) can and should still compete against men.

Look at the division this way. You have an "open" category and you have a "protected" category. Anyone can compete in the open category. That usually means men (but not always) so it's casually called men's sports. For the "protected" category we disallow athletes with certain biological advantages. This basically means most (but not all) women qualify. That's why it's casually called women's sports.

Trumpian Lies wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

Wow, you really have a knack for providing convincing evidence and making compelling arguments.

Used to be, people just shouted "liar, liar pants on fire" and said "nyah, nyah, nyah."

Used to be people didn't rely on bullsh!t off the internet or crap they hear on Fox news as their "evidence." Trumpian Lies are now common place where no amount of evidence, science or fact can change the minds of the deluded sheep. You clearly are one of those, so wasting my time debating you would be pointless. Good luck.

Bullsxxt... Fox news... Trumpian lies... deluded sheep... wasting my time debating you would be pointless.

Instead of providing your compelling evidence and convincing arguments, you just engage in name-calling, then you throw your toys out of the pram. I'm envisioning you right now with your arms strapped across you chest saying "I'll never eat again - and then you'll really be sorry!"

Sorry mate, I'm not your mum. I'm a second-wave feminist who knows a whole lot about the Semenya case, DSDs in general and the efforts of gender ideologues who say that males with DSDs and "gender issues" should be able to horn in on girls' and women's sports.

Pray tell, what is the rationale for allowing males with DSDs or "gender identity" issues into female sports?

Played a Doctor on TV wrote:

Your OBGYN knows nothing about me. I am shocked by your appalling inability to use statistics to develop an informed opinion. Racing against someone with gender biological advantages is not the way to run a competition. Maybe they should compete in the Special Olympics?

This is not a problem. Trans compete as men.

The fact that this issue has been taken seriously is wrong.

Practical solution: create a 3rd category. One for men, one for women, one for trans.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

The fact that this issue has been taken seriously is wrong.

Practical solution: create a 3rd category. One for men, one for women, one for trans.

Awesome. So basically every men's sport other than football and basketball get cut and pretty much every Trans person on Campus will be getting a full athletic scholarship?

Bound4Glory wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

Further, this bill, while well intentions are present to protect biologically female athletes from being eclipsed by trans women, effectively has the consequence of banning trans people from collegiate athletics. That is no better a situation than having trans women competing with biological women.

Not at all true. The trans women (men that become women) can and should still compete against men.

Look at the division this way. You have an "open" category and you have a "protected" category. Anyone can compete in the open category. That usually means men (but not always) so it's casually called men's sports. For the "protected" category we disallow athletes with certain biological advantages. This basically means most (but not all) women qualify. That's why it's casually called women's sports.

Great. Now define those biological characteristics in a way that everyone agrees with. Most cases are easy. But you get stuck with a lot of gray area ones...

I can remember - when as a race director in the mid 70s - a sponsor not wanting to provide equal prizes for men AND women. He said if a women wants the prize she can win the race! Seems like society is going backwards on this issue. There is a reason why there are men's AND women's competitions and they do not compete against each other.

Sensitive topic.

I might be wrong, but I do believe changes need to be done.

Some out there think that men and women have similar physical capabilities, the true is not even close. At any sport even a mediocre male athlete will top a top of the field female athlete.

This is not political. I am a "to the left of Bernie Sanders" proud socialist and am disdainful of conservatives...and even I believe that transgender women (i.e. biological males who have transitioned to female) should not compete against biological women.

So there's that.

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

Bound4Glory wrote:

Not at all true. The trans women (men that become women) can and should still compete against men.

Look at the division this way. You have an "open" category and you have a "protected" category. Anyone can compete in the open category. That usually means men (but not always) so it's casually called men's sports. For the "protected" category we disallow athletes with certain biological advantages. This basically means most (but not all) women qualify. That's why it's casually called women's sports.

Great. Now define those biological characteristics in a way that everyone agrees with. Most cases are easy. But you get stuck with a lot of gray area ones...

If you are talking about trans people. That's easy. Both MTF and FTM should compete in the "open" category. (And MTF should be treated as "women in the open division.")

If you are talking about intersex people, that's much harder. I think only people with CAIS should be allowed to compete in the female division. I don't think "everyone" would agree with this, and PAIS covers a very wide range.

Sarah Gronert should be allowed to compete in the women's division.

Caster Semenya should not.

I don't know about Dutee Chand.

To play or not to play wrote:

People like Roy are always saying look at the science. And I agree. The science says that if everyone was trans or homosexual, we would not perform the fundamental objective of the human race, which is to reproduce and perpetuate the species. While I, undoubtedly, don’t want to further alienate gays and transgender folk as we have for far too long, I am also tired of punishing people who are neither. It’s the same flawed argument as it’s not good enough to not be racist... you have to be anti-racist or you don’t count. .

Oh please ... do spend a few minutes outlining the myriad examples of straight people being punished for their sexuality that have so tired you.

Men have the right to be women too. If a man is too slow for men’s races why shouldn’t he be able to run as a woman in woman’s races? Science will allow men to have babies in the future. We need to be prepared and have more men in woman’s sports. Men can do everything a woman can do and can be better at being a woman too. It’s an equal society and men have rights to, even if it means they want to be a woman. It’s not illegal to become a woman so they should let trans men race in woman’s events. Even Caster is not fast enough for men’s races so it’s fair to put her in with the women. Women need her to show that a woman can be strong too.

With more and more research coming out it's becoming clearer that there needs to be stricter rules over who can compete in the women's category. This is not to say that we exclude trans women. But we should be looking into how to make the rules the most fair.

When mens and women's sports were separated it wasn't due to gender identity. It was due to physical differences. Let's not forget that. On the same token, excluding an entire group of women is antithetical to sports and humanity. Let's remember that too.

So stricter rules. But with that, let the trans women play.

The fact this is even an issue shows what an insane world we live in.

I can only imagine the reaction of the women that fought for women's sports in the 1970's if you told them that men would be allowed to compete in women's sports simply by putting on a sports bra.

Seriously it's the stuff of SNL or silly goofy movies(Juana Man).. and now it's real life.