JAKOB I. to attend World Half in Poland against Kamwo and Cheptegei.

Is there an argument in there somewhere? Is increased cadence not the key to a good sprint and/or kick?

That video someone posted of Jakob "outkicking" an out of shape has-been Centro was silly. That was no kick, he just jogged faster against a field he easily outclassed.

Doesn't work against Potato Tim and won't get him to 3:25.

He will run 58 and change. People keep under estimating Jakob he is already one of the top 10 in history. My guess is he can run sub 12:45 for 5000m sub 26:40 for 10,000m and a sub 59 half will be a walk in the park for him.

Jacob can run 1250 for 5000 m at least.

based on the 3k result.

it would be very strange for any athlete with these credentials, in top form, not to run at least 60 flat for HM

uu.uuu wrote:

VA Runna wrote:

Jakob didn't medal in the 5k last year and wouldn't have medalled in the 10k.

Well yes, he didn't medal, but he did take 5th in the world while on the back half of a tough double (1500/5000) that Gjert admitted he didn't think Jakob was ready for.

A surprising amount here talk about him like he's never accomplished anything... last I checked he was already top 8 all-time in 2 distance events.

He was actually on the front half of the double. The 5k was first. If a 1500m guy can't medal in the 5k fresh, he probably wouldn't have medalled in the 10k. And again, this is a 21.1k race. I would like to be proven wrong, I would like to see JI medal. He's talented with a high pain threshold and puts a lot of emphasis on tempo/threshold work in training. But I'm just following logic here.

uu.uuu wrote:

VA Runna wrote:

Jakob didn't medal in the 5k last year and wouldn't have medalled in the 10k.

Well yes, he didn't medal, but he did take 5th in the world while on the back half of a tough double (1500/5000) that Gjert admitted he didn't think Jakob was ready for.

A surprising amount here talk about him like he's never accomplished anything... last I checked he was already top 8 all-time in 2 distance events.

He's top 9 in 3 already.

I don't know why people use "He didn't get a medal last year" as some sort of gotcha. It's incredibly obvious he is in way better shape this year compared to last year. I don't wanna say he'll get a medal just because I don't know the credentials of everyone in the race, but if the winning time is under 59, than Jakob being over 60 would be kinda disappointing.

Of course, unless he runs under 59 and/or medals, there will be plenty of people on here trying to discount that achievement.

MarkMyWords wrote:

He will run 58 and change. People keep under estimating Jakob he is already one of the top 10 in history. My guess is he can run sub 12:45 for 5000m sub 26:40 for 10,000m and a sub 59 half will be a walk in the park for him.

Top ten all-time across all distance events?

its great to see him racing .. real old school which seems to work well for him

Jakob impresses me quite a bit, but sub 59? Are people crazy? This is what... his second ever race longer than 5k? His longest truly world class result so far is 3k. I could see him being a 58 high dude some day in the future, but anything under 60 would be insanely good for the half debut of a 20 year old. I'd put him a 60 mid if he runs intelligently and 62+ if he tries to run a sub-59.

Another thought... Mo Farah is a 3:28/12:53 guy who probably could have run high 12:40s in the right race. Jakob is a 3:28/7:27 guy that's probably capable of high 12:40s in the right race. So, pretty similar track ability. Mo hasn't managed to break 59:30 on an eligible course and hasn't even broken 59 on a downhill/point-to-point race despite focusing on 10k to marathon. Why would Jakob be able to translate up better than anything Mo has ever done in his debut?

dragonfly spikes wrote:

Another thought... Mo Farah is a 3:28/12:53 guy who probably could have run high 12:40s in the right race. Jakob is a 3:28/7:27 guy that's probably capable of high 12:40s in the right race. So, pretty similar track ability. Mo hasn't managed to break 59:30 on an eligible course and hasn't even broken 59 on a downhill/point-to-point race despite focusing on 10k to marathon. Why would Jakob be able to translate up better than anything Mo has ever done in his debut?

i don't think mo has run a very competitive half since getting in peak shape for halfs to marathons. he's not good at keeping a hard pace unless he absolutely needs it to win. I think he definitely could have broken 59 in the right race. still can.

Loppas wrote:

I think his possible start in the wc halfmarathon was more of a joke. BUT if he did, he would run about 60 minutes.

His threshold-pace is close to 22 km/t (2,45 mins. pr. km.), and his slow jogging runs between his quality workouts are about 3,30 - 3,40 mins pr. km. So 2,50 mins pr. km. should be doable!

Ah he's someone's easy runs a great predictor of race times!

high school xc coach wrote:

dragonfly spikes wrote:

Another thought... Mo Farah is a 3:28/12:53 guy who probably could have run high 12:40s in the right race. Jakob is a 3:28/7:27 guy that's probably capable of high 12:40s in the right race. So, pretty similar track ability. Mo hasn't managed to break 59:30 on an eligible course and hasn't even broken 59 on a downhill/point-to-point race despite focusing on 10k to marathon. Why would Jakob be able to translate up better than anything Mo has ever done in his debut?

i don't think mo has run a very competitive half since getting in peak shape for halfs to marathons. he's not good at keeping a hard pace unless he absolutely needs it to win. I think he definitely could have broken 59 in the right race. still can.

wrong

mo is garbage and only a championship racer

Jakob I is not fast by nature, neither are his brothers. He has to, in training, consentrate on his strengths. I.e. the ability to run sub maximal speed over a long space of time combined with his great capacity. If he starts "sprint training" he will weaken his strengths. Either he will outrun his opponents or probably lose again if they are able to kick the last 150-100 meters. That will be his destiny. We will see how it goes a year or two from now.

KaareV wrote:

Jakob I is not fast by nature, neither are his brothers. He has to, in training, consentrate on his strengths. I.e. the ability to run sub maximal speed over a long space of time combined with his great capacity. If he starts "sprint training" he will weaken his strengths. Either he will outrun his opponents or probably lose again if they are able to kick the last 150-100 meters. That will be his destiny. We will see how it goes a year or two from now.

After their statements, i fully believe Jakob is invited either in Joshua's 10000m WR attempt or in Valencia Half in December.

Coupled with either World half or Hytteplanmila 10k which happen on the same day.

KaareV wrote:

"Jakob I is not fast by nature, neither are his brothers. He has to, in training, consentrate on his strengths. I.e. the ability to run sub maximal speed over a long space of time combined with his great capacity. If he starts "sprint training" he will weaken his strengths. Either he will outrun his opponents or probably lose again if they are able to kick the last 150-100 meters. That will be his destiny. We will see how it goes a year or two from now."

--------------------------

I agree Kaare that Jakob hasn´t got natural speed.

But I strongly disagree that Jakob will weaken his strenghts (endurance) by doing "sprint training". On the contrary his endurance will benefit him more if he can increase his top speed.

The legendary Arthur Lydiard and his foremost athlete Peter Snell (who spend his professional life after his sports career as a scientist proving many of Lydiard more trial/ error based theories) have both been writing about these subjects. If you are interested I can find some links?

Snell has among other tings described how long runs in at least moderate pace will improve your sprinting abilities! The mechanics should be that some seldom used fast twitch muscle fibres are activated when the slow twitch fibres are depleted after running more than about an hour.

By the way: As stated in other threads I think Jakob is far from fully developed. He will increase both his speed and general power AND his endurance/ aerobic capacity for years to come. His speed and power for at least 3-4 more years; his endurance into his thirties if he keeps on for so long.

OK. But what I wrote was in a specific context (answer to Bad Wiggins). It was about the kick and training spesifically to achieve that. It was not about developing max speed, which, as you yourself explains, can be done in a lot of different ways. As I am not in the predictability business; we will see what happens next year.

I see high 58 as possible for Mo, but he hasn't done it yet. But, why would anyone think Jakob would be at least as good as Mo's potential in his debut?

i agree high 58 for mo. jakob will get there or better, but I would assume mid to high 59 at this point.

maybe he would surprise me though.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Loppas wrote:

I think his possible start in the wc halfmarathon was more of a joke. BUT if he did, he would run about 60 minutes.

His threshold-pace is close to 22 km/t (2,45 mins. pr. km.), and his slow jogging runs between his quality workouts are about 3,30 - 3,40 mins pr. km. So 2,50 mins pr. km. should be doable!

Ah he's someone's easy runs a great predictor of race times!

Actually, his treshold pace is now 2.40 min pr.km with a lactate level of aroundt 2.0, that is extremely good. He obviously has the aerobic fitness to run sub 60 in well paced race. The only thing he might lack is resistance to 21km on asphalt.