ex-runner wrote:
Coevett wrote:
This forum is toxic. I didn't come in here last night and wouldn't even if Jakob had ran 1:43. Thank God we didn't have LetsRun back in the 80's or it would have killed my enjoyment in witnessing the golden Brit era.
You are the toxic one.
Totally.
Stay away dude. Last night was a great night without you and Gr eg.
Now if only david45 would go away as well.
Caring about how fast Jakob runs a 800 is like caring how fast Michael Johnson ran a 100. Michael Johnson was not the best 100 sprinter yet is the greatest 200/400 combo sprinter of all time. Jakob is a 1500/5k runner rate now. But I think his bag will be the 10k-Half. It certainly won’t matter what he can run an 800 in then.
True, it "won't matter", but of course it is interesting to know Michael Johnson's 100m PR is 10.09, just like it is interesting to know J.Ingebrigsten's 800m PR is for now 1:46.5, just like anyone who's ever raced wants to know his/her PRs across some range.
Frankly, the only pity right now is that there aren't a wider range of athletes and regions staging or able to stage these races right now. (Was a nice attempt in the Norway vs E.Africa, but whoa, the altitude diff, and I don't know any other examples)
It is cool to see some times coming out. The Ingebrigstens do have an advantage with their very tight group of 3 to organize compete as they please.
How many current 5k runners have run faster than Jakob in the 800? His 800m speed is going to help him at the end of the 5k in a strategic race.
Wouldn't this roughly tie the US high school record? I don't know why anyone expects him to be world class in the 800m.
Historical comparisons are interesting but name check is right - all that matters is how Jacob compares to the current crop of 5000m runners. In a 13:20 or 13:30 championship race who would you expect to outkick him? Certainly not Cheptegei or any of the 5/10 - types. Maybe Kejelcha who has similar 1500m / mile speed but he doesn't generally position himself as well as Jacob does. Edris has a kick but - correct me if I'm wrong - that tends to be off a faster pace. Of all the Ethiopians, I'd most fancy Gebriwhet because he has great acceleration and generally gets into the right place at the right time.
Don't get me wrong - I'd always expect at least one Ethiopian to beat Jacob (especially since I think they finally realise they need races run at sub-13 mins pace ). But let's be honest, if any of the Ethiopians had a 3:30 1500m PB and had just run an early season 1:46, we'd be making them favourite for the Tokyo 5000.
El G 1:47?
Sovietvest wrote:
Historical comparisons are interesting but name check is right - all that matters is how Jacob compares to the current crop of 5000m runners. In a 13:20 or 13:30 championship race who would you expect to outkick him? Certainly not Cheptegei or any of the 5/10 - types. Maybe Kejelcha who has similar 1500m / mile speed but he doesn't generally position himself as well as Jacob does. Edris has a kick but - correct me if I'm wrong - that tends to be off a faster pace. Of all the Ethiopians, I'd most fancy Gebriwhet because he has great acceleration and generally gets into the right place at the right time.
Don't get me wrong - I'd always expect at least one Ethiopian to beat Jacob (especially since I think they finally realise they need races run at sub-13 mins pace ). But let's be honest, if any of the Ethiopians had a 3:30 1500m PB and had just run an early season 1:46, we'd be making them favourite for the Tokyo 5000.
Edris beat Farah in a 13:3x race. That's not what I'd call a faster pace.
But, as we've seen, he has injury problems at times.
the beagle wrote:
Sovietvest wrote:
Historical comparisons are interesting but name check is right - all that matters is how Jacob compares to the current crop of 5000m runners. In a 13:20 or 13:30 championship race who would you expect to outkick him? Certainly not Cheptegei or any of the 5/10 - types. Maybe Kejelcha who has similar 1500m / mile speed but he doesn't generally position himself as well as Jacob does. Edris has a kick but - correct me if I'm wrong - that tends to be off a faster pace. Of all the Ethiopians, I'd most fancy Gebriwhet because he has great acceleration and generally gets into the right place at the right time.
Don't get me wrong - I'd always expect at least one Ethiopian to beat Jacob (especially since I think they finally realise they need races run at sub-13 mins pace ). But let's be honest, if any of the Ethiopians had a 3:30 1500m PB and had just run an early season 1:46, we'd be making them favourite for the Tokyo 5000.
Edris beat Farah in a 13:3x race. That's not what I'd call a faster pace.
But, as we've seen, he has injury problems at times.
Jakob now has one of, if not the fastest, 800m times out of all the contenders in the 5k. He is already extremely strong aerobically and at only 19 he is going to improve more each year than older athletes. He is a legitimate threat to win Olympic Gold.
Yeah I think he has enough 800m speed to win a global 5000m but I'm not sure his fitness is there yet. Maybe in time.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
cadena wrote:
Yeah, that's why he negative-split it... Oh wait, 52 high + 53 high
Pacing was ideal for him, people don't understand that it was a great race for him. He doesn't have the speed to run much faster in the 800m. Lagat couldn't break 1:46 in 25+ 800m races, and Jakob runs 1:46 in his first serious race. Not gonna get much better than that, but it could have been a lot worse if he went out too hard and dies during the 2nd lap.
He doesn't have the raw speed to go out like a Rudisha. His strength is he can keep up a high, steady pace, which he has shown.
Yes. Rudisha was a 400m (~45.6) guy who stepped up to the 800m. Once in a generation talent. I'd be curious what Van Niekerk can do if he switched events. His joke of a 1:57 training jog early this year does not count.
Very close to Moorcroft's 800m pb of 1:46.64.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
cadena wrote:
Yeah, that's why he negative-split it... Oh wait, 52 high + 53 high
Pacing was ideal for him, people don't understand that it was a great race for him. He doesn't have the speed to run much faster in the 800m. Lagat couldn't break 1:46 in 25+ 800m races, and Jakob runs 1:46 in his first serious race. Not gonna get much better than that, but it could have been a lot worse if he went out too hard and dies during the 2nd lap.
He doesn't have the raw speed to go out like a Rudisha. His strength is he can keep up a high, steady pace, which he has shown.
I agree - really decent run, especially considering it was a low-key season opener. We also don't know how much speed-work he's been doing, or if he tapered at all (probably not much I'd guess..), so this could have been purely run off base and strength training in the middle of a heavy training block. Assuming he's putting in mainly base now, given that Tokyo (and the next season) is quite a way off.
We can only hope that the boy stays healthy fit and injury-free all the way to Tokyo ( and the multitude of EPO cheats get caught). If both happen, he's got a really good chance of at least a medal. It certainly brings interest from the European side, and breaks up the boredom (for us at least) of the African dominance.
Is there a video of this 800m race anywhere on YouTube or other platforms? It'd be great to see it.
the beagle wrote:
Yeah I think he has enough 800m speed to win a global 5000m but I'm not sure his fitness is there yet. Maybe in time.
Well he had the lead in 2019 World Championships until the last 150m. He timed his kick wrong, still ran 13:02 in a strategic race. As a 19 year old. I don't have any concerns about his fitness.
historical runner wrote:
sbeefyk2 wrote:
1:46 for the so-called best runner in the history of the world?
He couldn't even win NCAAs.
but I thought Kipchoge is the best runner in the history of the world?
He should easily be able to run 1:41 then no? Whats Kipchoges 1500 time again?
Not even close troll. No one is arguing Kipchoge has any sprint speed
The Scot wrote:
Very close to Moorcroft's 800m pb of 1:46.64.
A man who knows what he is talking about.
Moorcroft ran 1:46, 3:49 mile (likely 3:31 capable), 7:32 3k and 13:00 in the 5000.
That is probably where Jakob sits right now, with the potential to run a bit faster in all events in time.
sbeefyk2 wrote:
1:46 for the so-called best runner in the history of the world?
He couldn't even win NCAAs.
The most recent winner of NCAAs in the 800, Bryce Hoppel, was just 4th in the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS in 2019 just weeks after his NCAA championship. The winner of the world championships went pro early just a couple years earlier
Ordinary pacing and he treated it like the last 2 laps of a 5 k.
He has more in him, and way more to learn. Way too one paced.
146 is a very good time.
its hard to run 145, even is you are 143-144 ability if you train for the 1.5-5K double.
guys like centro, steve scott, john walker, and the like are very hard pressed to go under 145 and a 145 mid, they would be very happy with any day of the week.
because.
when you specialize on 56 - 58 sec a lap pace, and do distance, it's very hard to turn 51 + 53.
with that said, of course, with focus, based on his first race in 3 years, and great middle distance condition, there is no doubt that this lad can go 144.
he only needs to back off and do speed for 2 weeks and get in a 144 high even pace race.
sbeefyk2 wrote:
1:46 for the so-called best runner in the history of the world?
He couldn't even win NCAAs.
Yeahhh I'd love to watch him get his doors blown off in the NCAA 1500 or 5000.
He should just retire.
**sarcasm**