Is Drew Hunter wasting his potential by training with Tinman?

High school, high school, blah blah blah. You don't get it, do you? What a runner did in high school is worth F all when they're trying to compete on the professional level. If you want professional results, you hire a professional coach.

shootpost wrote:

fasciz wrote:

He qualified for the team. That’s the same thing as making the team. But keep telling yourself otherwise.

I knew it was stupid to bring up the 5th at USA because my point is lost.

I only really value medaling at Olympics and World Championships. So my criticism of Tinman is I don't believe he does the speed work and training required to win those big races on the last lap.

Him getting 5th at USA getting absolutely BURNTTTT the last lap against USA runners shows how far he has to go. And with Tinmans current training I don't see anything that makes me go "give him time he will develop it." Cause he sure as hell isn't gonna outrun 3:29/12:50 guys in the middle of the race.

Lopez Lomong put 50m on him the last lap with a 10k in the legs. Lopez Lomong is very good, but not a world beater. Shows how lacking Drews finishing speed it.

smhjjjj wrote:

macdaddy wrote:

And this lady qualified for the Olympics! Factual statement.

But, I’m able to notice the difference between a true qualifier and someone who qualified based on technicalities.

https://www.cbssports.com/olympics/news/meet-elizabeth-swaney-the-american-skier-who-scammed-her-way-to-the-olympics/

Clearly you can't differentiate an elite athlete qualifying for the WC with a standard and a normal woman scamming her way into the olympics by changing countries twice ...

If the runners ahead of Hunter wanted to qualify they should've run the standard in time, simple as that. Hunter was a "true qualifier"

Seems like you both are the ones with the rigid thinking.

There’s a difference between winning the trials and being a contender (Rupp, 2012) and essentially cheating your way into a qualifying sport, right?

With the combination of failing to place top 3 and dropping out due to injury, he’s closer to the snowboarder than he is Rupp IMO.

It’s the same as his indoor “US championship”. Like cool, you won from the slow heat. Now, qualify for the fast heat and race the real way.

As an American, I hope he progresses. He’s still young. I just thought we’d be further along after that insane mile in HS.

shootpost wrote:

fasciz wrote:

He qualified for the team. That’s the same thing as making the team. But keep telling yourself otherwise.

I knew it was stupid to bring up the 5th at USA because my point is lost.

I only really value medaling at Olympics and World Championships. So my criticism of Tinman is I don't believe he does the speed work and training required to win those big races on the last lap.

Him getting 5th at USA getting absolutely BURNTTTT the last lap against USA runners shows how far he has to go. And with Tinmans current training I don't see anything that makes me go "give him time he will develop it." Cause he sure as hell isn't gonna outrun 3:29/12:50 guys in the middle of the race.

You're welcome to have that opinion. Not a lot of US born runners medal in distance events, so I wouldn't be surprised if he never does. I was merely calling out the intellectual dishonest framing of him not making the team.

Plenty of US born runners do. And in recent memory they all do it with outstanding finishing speed.

So by having a coach not developing his finishing speed, in my opinion, Drew is wasting his potential.

shootpost wrote:

shootpost wrote:

I knew it was stupid to bring up the 5th at USA because my point is lost.

I only really value medaling at Olympics and World Championships. So my criticism of Tinman is I don't believe he does the speed work and training required to win those big races on the last lap.

Him getting 5th at USA getting absolutely BURNTTTT the last lap against USA runners shows how far he has to go. And with Tinmans current training I don't see anything that makes me go "give him time he will develop it." Cause he sure as hell isn't gonna outrun 3:29/12:50 guys in the middle of the race.

Lopez Lomong put 50m on him the last lap with a 10k in the legs. Lopez Lomong is very good, but not a world beater. Shows how lacking Drews finishing speed it.

Hunter is just about as good as Rupp was at his age. Getting smoked by Lomong and finishing 5th doesn't change that. US distance running is leagues better than it was 12 years ago. Rupp also would have been smoked on that last lap at 22.

As for Tinman not offering much speedwork for his group, I don't know much about that, but I saw someone say he has them capped at ~400m pace? That is essentially top speed for a distance runner. Al Sal notoriously had Farah and Rupp finish workouts with a 50.xx last 400. They were probably in 48-49 shape when fresh with a flying start. If Schwartz is having his group run 400m pace sometimes, there's not much difference. I suppose the difference would be WHEN and how often he has them running that pace.

And for how long, obviously. Idk if he's doing 200s, 300s, 400s

400m speed is not top speed for any athlete. Salazar also had his athletes work on 150m and under sprinting. Galen running 100s in around 11 flat with a running start.

long runs wrote:

400m speed is not top speed for any athlete. Salazar also had his athletes work on 150m and under sprinting. Galen running 100s in around 11 flat with a running start.

Thanks. Closing last 400m may be in 52, but it won't be split 13/13/13/13. It may be 14, 13. 13, 12.

Here is Galen doing 200s in 24/25:

And look at Galen very comfortably absolutely embarrassing poor Chris Derrick here:

long runs wrote:

400m speed is not top speed for any athlete. Salazar also had his athletes work on 150m and under sprinting. Galen running 100s in around 11 flat with a running start.

It's not literally top speed, but when your legs are jelly after a session, it might as well be. 11 flat even with a running start sounds a bit too sensational for Rupp. Do you have a source?

I thought sharing this video would be appropriate:

shootpost wrote:

long runs wrote:

400m speed is not top speed for any athlete. Salazar also had his athletes work on 150m and under sprinting. Galen running 100s in around 11 flat with a running start.

Thanks. Closing last 400m may be in 52, but it won't be split 13/13/13/13. It may be 14, 13. 13, 12.

Here is Galen doing 200s in 24/25:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-EFgnXzMq0

And look at Galen very comfortably absolutely embarrassing poor Chris Derrick here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvtfnSP6kgs

24/25 is 400 speed

You guys know Galen didn't have that closing speed when he was 21, right? Abdi smoked him at the end of the 10k.

spade detector wrote:

You guys know Galen didn't have that closing speed when he was 21, right? Abdi smoked him at the end of the 10k.

yes.

My comment a couple posts up: "So my criticism of Tinman is I don't believe he does the speed work and training required to win those big races on the last lap."

spade detector wrote:

You guys know Galen didn't have that closing speed when he was 21, right? Abdi smoked him at the end of the 10k.

That was strength that Abdi had more of. Not speed.

Of course this then changed of time with development

Arizona E coach wrote:

spade detector wrote:

You guys know Galen didn't have that closing speed when he was 21, right? Abdi smoked him at the end of the 10k.

That was strength that Abdi had more of. Not speed.

Of course this then changed of time with development

Fine, but the point is that Rupp did not have the speed/finish in 2007 that he had in 2012. Whether that improved due to Salazar's training approach, the testosterone tinkering, or some combination of both....that's hard to say and is based on individual opinion.

During practice, Rupp finished his interval workouts with maximum effort repetitions. Two examples include a 51 second 400m and a 11.03 100m

https://strengthrunning.com/2012/08/farah-and-rupp-olympic-10k/

Salazar had his guys regularly run fast 100s

You call Drew Hunter "highly injury prone"

Did you ever stop to think maybe it's the coaching? I bet if Drew switched coaches he'd be healthier...and faster.

There is no evidence that faster intervals cause injuries more than tempo workouts.

long runs wrote:

During practice, Rupp finished his interval workouts with maximum effort repetitions. Two examples include a 51 second 400m and a 11.03 100m

https://strengthrunning.com/2012/08/farah-and-rupp-olympic-10k/

I don't doubt the 51, but I'm really questioning the 11.03. Why is the time so specific? Did Al Sal and his group really go out of their way to use FAT on a running start 100m after an interval session? Nevertheless, I concede it was likely low 11s. That's insanely quick.