messi wrote:
Andy Roddick is famous for saying that a tennis player covers 15 miles in a tight 5 setter.
Which is interesting because the last couple of years they've been GPS tracking players and they're actually covering around 2000m in a 5 setter.
As for speed, I recall Andy Murray being astonished by Mo Farah's 50.x sec final lap at say 2013 World Championship. Murray said he does 400s in training at 57secs
Farah is a track runner. Murray is a tennis player. Trains by doing 400s in 57 seconds? Probably can top off around 50 seconds without specific training. That's fast. Maybe only soccer players have better 400 speed?
What in the? wrote:
Farah is a track runner. Murray is a tennis player. Trains by doing 400s in 57 seconds? Probably can top off around 50 seconds without specific training. That's fast. Maybe only soccer players have better 400 speed?
His coach thought a bit slower.
sticks in craw wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You don't think elite runners will have surgeries, and still be competing in their thirties - and even their forties? Even so, Federer and Murray are not the players they were - and never will be again. But I have seen top pros like them on court and their combination of speed and stamina is outstanding. They may not have quite what a top track athlete has - and don't do the same kind of training - but none of them would only be an "average" runner or even hobby jogger, as some here have suggested. I played a 1.46 800m runner at tennis - and beat him - and he was nowhere near as fast around the court as a pro tennis player.
There's "quickness" and then there's running speed. All cats are quick even though a cheetah can run twice the speed of any others.
Your example just proves that running speed and endurance does not matter as much.
Ok, Mr Expert - have you ever played competitive tennis to any level, or are you just making claims from your arm chair?
sticks in craw wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7nwL0wTUSs
This is why Murray wasn't as quick and explosive as De Minaur is. De Minaur cross trains in the off-season focusing on running, cycling, boxing, and swimming. Probably why De Minaur will be less injury prone also.
Armstronglivs wrote:
sticks in craw wrote:
There's "quickness" and then there's running speed. All cats are quick even though a cheetah can run twice the speed of any others.
Your example just proves that running speed and endurance does not matter as much.
Ok, Mr Expert - have you ever played competitive tennis to any level, or are you just making claims from your arm chair?
Yes. Plus my son's coach is a very high level player and I am faster than him and have more endurance despite being twice his age.
His tennis quickness is better though.
i think the quickest men could run 100 meters in about 11.20 or so.certainly 11.5.theyd probably run a 1.57 800,and 1500 close to 4 minutes,although im being optimistic.theyre very fit and strong,with speed and endurance,but wouldnt be competitive with trained sprinters or distance runners.some could run a 5000 in 15 minutes,im sure.they would be much better runners than people who have been plucked off the street .
I have been a capable tennis player, though taking the game up late. I was a 12sec 100m runner at high school, though not a sprinter, and in my late twenties could run 4.30 for a mile on the road. The very best tennis pros are faster around the court than I was - even though I was quick - and they have more endurance. My estimation is that the fastest tennis players would be capable of sub-11 for the 100m and the fittest could run 4.20 or better for a mile. (Some are on drugs - so, who knows?) The best tennis athletes seem to me to combine the qualities of a long sprinter, like a 400 runner, with the sustained aerobic capacity of a 1500 runner. But there are no Bekeles or Virens on a tennis court. Tennis players are all-round athletes rather than extreme specialists. It is in the end a sport of technique and skill.
How old were you when you were playing tennis relative to when you could run 12 seconds?
I am extremely skeptical that any of the best guys could run the times you suggest. Their training shows no indication of anything like the requirements to do those times.
I have seen little evidence of running ability from many tennis players except Monfils. They simply don't do enough running.
sticks in craw wrote:
How old were you when you were playing tennis relative to when you could run 12 seconds?
I am extremely skeptical that any of the best guys could run the times you suggest. Their training shows no indication of anything like the requirements to do those times.
I have seen little evidence of running ability from many tennis players except Monfils. They simply don't do enough running.
I started tennis in my thirties. Experienced coaches said I was as quick as any top player on court in the city where I was living. My court speed was mainly in my initial acceleration - as it is with most top players. But I also played some long gruelling matches and I knew the demands that tennis places on endurance. It was easily as tough as when I ran middle distance at school.
A lot of players I knew jogged to get fit. I also trained with top youngsters, some of whom showed impressive middle-distance running capacity when we went on training runs, and could easily have been capable of a sub-5 mile.
Pro tennis players don't train for track but they are still extremely fit. You can't succeed in the game if you aren't. The very best are amazing all-round athletes, and would be in the top 1-2% in my estimation. It isn't a stretch to see that some would have the short distance speed of a top footballer, and others the endurance of a middle distance runner, although not the specifically-trained speed of an elite.
I remember watching a match a few years ago between Andy Murray and David Ferrer. It was a killer. The rallies were phenomenal. My impression was that they were like track athletes running one 400m after another. Ferrer finally collapsed with cramps - which I had never seen him do before. I thought only doping could allow them to play like that.
Lampost wrote:
Been having this debate for a while with one of my friends. How fast could the fastest tennis player run a mile? I came up with a potential shortlist of the top 3 fastest players. As always feel free to discuss and weigh in your own thoughts on this perennial debate:
1) Gael Monfils: 4:35
2) Alex Zverev: 4:44
3) Novak Djokovic: 4:50
Additionally, how fast do you think the big 3 (Nadal, Federer, Djokovic) could cover a mile. I don't see Nadal breaking 5 and no way Federer breaks 5:20.
Discuss.
Weird list you got there. Not sure why you would have Monfils & Zverev there. Don't think they would make the top 10 for the mile.
If I would guess top 3 for the mile, it would be:
1) Goffin -4:18
2) Thiem -4:24
3) Djokovic -4:26
Of course, to become the best, you have to have the whole package. A mile time is not as important as other aspects.
sticks in craw wrote:
How old were you when you were playing tennis relative to when you could run 12 seconds?
I am extremely skeptical that any of the best guys could run the times you suggest. Their training shows no indication of anything like the requirements to do those times.
I have seen little evidence of running ability from many tennis players except Monfils. They simply don't do enough running.
Nadal is incredibly fast. And tireless. So is Djokovic. In fact the tirelessness and speed of many modern players made me suspicious that it wasn't entirely natural.
Armstronglivs wrote:
sticks in craw wrote:
How old were you when you were playing tennis relative to when you could run 12 seconds?
I am extremely skeptical that any of the best guys could run the times you suggest. Their training shows no indication of anything like the requirements to do those times.
I have seen little evidence of running ability from many tennis players except Monfils. They simply don't do enough running.
I started tennis in my thirties. Experienced coaches said I was as quick as any top player on court in the city where I was living. My court speed was mainly in my initial acceleration - as it is with most top players. But I also played some long gruelling matches and I knew the demands that tennis places on endurance. It was easily as tough as when I ran middle distance at school.
A lot of players I knew jogged to get fit. I also trained with top youngsters, some of whom showed impressive middle-distance running capacity when we went on training runs, and could easily have been capable of a sub-5 mile.
Pro tennis players don't train for track but they are still extremely fit. You can't succeed in the game if you aren't. The very best are amazing all-round athletes, and would be in the top 1-2% in my estimation. It isn't a stretch to see that some would have the short distance speed of a top footballer, and others the endurance of a middle distance runner, although not the specifically-trained speed of an elite.
I remember watching a match a few years ago between Andy Murray and David Ferrer. It was a killer. The rallies were phenomenal. My impression was that they were like track athletes running one 400m after another. Ferrer finally collapsed with cramps - which I had never seen him do before. I thought only doping could allow them to play like that.
I've seen this argument bandied about on letsrun all the time. Something like "I did sport x at an amateur level and could run a 4:30 mile, therefore someone who's world class at sport x could run a 4:10 mile". It's not convincing, I'm sorry. Distance running and playing tennis require different types of speed and endurance. Obviously they're not completely different, which is why no one's predicting that Federer couldn't break 8:00, for example, but they're different enough that having world class ability in one doesn't necessarily mean an extremely high level of ability in the other.
Btw, I've been a tennis player since I was 8 years old (not a particularly good one, but still). Even when I'd fully switched over to distance running and was running 14:30 in the 5k, I'd still be absolutely dead from playing 90 minutes of casual tennis. In fact, there was no apparent correlation between how fit I was in distance running and how fit I was on the tennis court. When I was 15 years old and couldn't break 5 in the mile I was in decidedly better tennis shape than when I was 25 years old and could run 4:15 in the mile. They are simply different types of endurance. I would be absolutely floored if Federer could even come close to a 4:30 mile, for example
Yep, Ferrer is a 36 minute 10k guy.
The comparison you make is very accurate. Watching Federer and Djokovic train and how they run shows no chance of a 4:30
They are tennis fit.
These are some good points. I think many people underestimate how comparably special middle distance running is. That's why it is rarely used as general fitness check. Instead one does flying 30m or 50m sprinting or stuff like Cooper test (12 min running or close enough 3km or 2 mile runs). If Federer ran 3300m in 12 min. this is not too impressive because 13 yo boys focussing on running can do better but it is a pretty good level of fitness that would lead to a (sub) 5 min mile with only little specific training. But for tennis playing he does not need to run his best mile or 800m or 5000m because the specific demands are rather different.
bigtool05 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I started tennis in my thirties. Experienced coaches said I was as quick as any top player on court in the city where I was living. My court speed was mainly in my initial acceleration - as it is with most top players. But I also played some long gruelling matches and I knew the demands that tennis places on endurance. It was easily as tough as when I ran middle distance at school.
A lot of players I knew jogged to get fit. I also trained with top youngsters, some of whom showed impressive middle-distance running capacity when we went on training runs, and could easily have been capable of a sub-5 mile.
Pro tennis players don't train for track but they are still extremely fit. You can't succeed in the game if you aren't. The very best are amazing all-round athletes, and would be in the top 1-2% in my estimation. It isn't a stretch to see that some would have the short distance speed of a top footballer, and others the endurance of a middle distance runner, although not the specifically-trained speed of an elite.
I remember watching a match a few years ago between Andy Murray and David Ferrer. It was a killer. The rallies were phenomenal. My impression was that they were like track athletes running one 400m after another. Ferrer finally collapsed with cramps - which I had never seen him do before. I thought only doping could allow them to play like that.
I've seen this argument bandied about on letsrun all the time. Something like "I did sport x at an amateur level and could run a 4:30 mile, therefore someone who's world class at sport x could run a 4:10 mile". It's not convincing, I'm sorry. Distance running and playing tennis require different types of speed and endurance. Obviously they're not completely different, which is why no one's predicting that Federer couldn't break 8:00, for example, but they're different enough that having world class ability in one doesn't necessarily mean an extremely high level of ability in the other.
Btw, I've been a tennis player since I was 8 years old (not a particularly good one, but still). Even when I'd fully switched over to distance running and was running 14:30 in the 5k, I'd still be absolutely dead from playing 90 minutes of casual tennis. In fact, there was no apparent correlation between how fit I was in distance running and how fit I was on the tennis court. When I was 15 years old and couldn't break 5 in the mile I was in decidedly better tennis shape than when I was 25 years old and could run 4:15 in the mile. They are simply different types of endurance. I would be absolutely floored if Federer could even come close to a 4:30 mile, for example
I don't think you can predict what time any of the tennis players can run, and of course they couldn't care less, just like I didn't really care when I played tennis in my teens/early twenties. I was curious at one point to try and do mile runs and started off at around 5:10 my first time out.
I figured out the hard way I went out too fast and managed my running better and doing 1 mile time trials once a week I was able to get down to 4:40ish after 3 months. This is all the while I was using tennis as 85% of my fitness generation. I lean towards thinking that tennis players are going to be pretty quick.
Jo72 wrote:
These are some good points. I think many people underestimate how comparably special middle distance running is. That's why it is rarely used as general fitness check. Instead one does flying 30m or 50m sprinting or stuff like Cooper test (12 min running or close enough 3km or 2 mile runs). If Federer ran 3300m in 12 min. this is not too impressive because 13 yo boys focussing on running can do better but it is a pretty good level of fitness that would lead to a (sub) 5 min mile with only little specific training. But for tennis playing he does not need to run his best mile or 800m or 5000m because the specific demands are rather different.
But I think you are confusing middle distance running with ELITE middle distance running. I see 4:30- 5:00 mile times as very good but not elite. A great athlete with great conditioning can achieve that. Even without specifically training for the mile. You are talking about 70 second laps. Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic would all feel very comfortable running that pace. The marginal increase as you approach 4 minute miles is where you get into a whole other world where you really do need to train specifically for the mile. Even though it is only 30 seconds faster.
If nothing else, look at the elite decathlon athletes. None of them really train for the 1500M. But its fairly common for a decathlete to run under 5 minutes for the mile as adjusted.
Besides that, I'm almost sure that tennis players do training on the tennis court that approximates something close to middle distance training. The only difference being that it is a constant change of direction. Going back and forth from baseline to net and sideline to sideline.
Don't read anything into Federer running 3300M in 12 minutes wherever you got that from. I imagine that would just be a warm up run for him before the real training on court.
Don't be afraid to watch the training videos. Those guys would die if they tried to run 70 second laps.
They look like baseball players being forced to run laps in spring training. Awkward, floppy and lazy in form.
messi wrote:
Andy Roddick is famous for saying that a tennis player covers 15 miles in a tight 5 setter.
I would put my money on the Djoker.
If Roddick did indeed say that then he should be infamous for telling such a ridiculous lie. At the top tier of tennis the ball is only in play for a fraction of the actual match time; approximately 20–30% on clay courts and 10–15% on grass or other fast synthetic surfaces. And the players also sit down for allotted 90-second breaks (which are always longer than that) during odd-game changeovers, and for 2 minutes between sets.
Tennis is a sport in which nothing happens for a majority of the time. While there might be some tennis players who could run a decent mile if they trained specifically for that, tennis itself does not get someone in shape for mid-D.