Hugo Fry went from 11th in 68.10 to 401st in 2.38 so not sure how accurate that is
because he was 531st
The data would be more insightful if it was those who in top 500 at halfway to where they finished (so would still include people like Hugo). It would also include lots of people Ben F & Hugo beat, all the DNFs.
Not naming, names but it grinds my gears when elites and sub elites DNFing when they can't be arsed to walk for an hour. It's like their egos are so big they can't take a sh*t time, or the time uploaded to Po10. Kudos to those who blew up and stayed out there without a made up injury.
I jumped over 100 places in 2nd half, even with a positive split 75:02 / 77:51. So I was a beneficiary of those blow ups, even though I was walking for bits of the 2nd half.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
the guy is mad corny, but tbf he has sort of made his whole family persona part of his running channel, so the instagram post is whatever. It's bizarre as hell to post it on Strava, but not sure this is the thing to rip him on imo. Can't get mad at everything
Except the fact a hobby jogger from the forum who is 41 and running his first marathon managed to cope fine and run a 2:24? It's easy to have confirmation bias on the back of ones own bad performance.
It's idiotic to think that everybody will be impacted by heat/sun equally. A tiny bloke like sirpoc is going to have far less heat buildup than someone like the FOD runner.
Because one person performed well in the heat doesn't negate that other taller or more muscular people might struggle with heat buildup, even in cooler weather than Sunday. It's basics physics and biology (larger runners produce more heat and have a lower surface area to volume ratio to disperse heat).
I wasn't racing but it drives me mad seeing this twaddle that because one bloke found it fine then it invalidates other people's experiences despite them having completely different body sizes/muscularity. It's not difficult to understand that people will have different susceptibility to heat/sun.
FOD (sorry to drag you into this but you're an example people will recognise) could have a sauna and hot bath every day for a year and would still be more susceptible to heat than someone half his size.
Except the fact a hobby jogger from the forum who is 41 and running his first marathon managed to cope fine and run a 2:24? It's easy to have confirmation bias on the back of ones own bad performance.
It's idiotic to think that everybody will be impacted by heat/sun equally. A tiny bloke like sirpoc is going to have far less heat buildup than someone like the FOD runner.
Because one person performed well in the heat doesn't negate that other taller or more muscular people might struggle with heat buildup, even in cooler weather than Sunday. It's basics physics and biology (larger runners produce more heat and have a lower surface area to volume ratio to disperse heat).
I wasn't racing but it drives me mad seeing this twaddle that because one bloke found it fine then it invalidates other people's experiences despite them having completely different body sizes/muscularity. It's not difficult to understand that people will have different susceptibility to heat/sun.
FOD (sorry to drag you into this but you're an example people will recognise) could have a sauna and hot bath every day for a year and would still be more susceptible to heat than someone half his size.
"Someone half his size"....?! How much do you think some runners weigh?
While it is true that heat generally impacts (time-wise) more of the midpack and back of the marathoners a lot more than the elites, it's not a like a Youtuber who has a lot of time and resources to train can't do some basic "heat training" to help compensate for possible adversity on a warm day. Wearing extra layers in clothing, training more in the afternoon, taking hot baths and trying to visit a sauna etc. The science on heat training is actually pretty solid and can go a long way fyi.
Sure genetics and surface area (body size) play a role, but it's also about general depth of fitness and getting used to "running hot" and knowing how to adjust hydration on the fly.
How hot was it in London exactly? low 70s? Low humidity? Sure that slows everyone down, but it's not like it was "horrible conditions"....heck a guy ran 2:02!
For a guy around 3:00 who has done some heat training and knows how to pace and hydrate and adjust for the conditions I'd say you're looking at a 3:05-3:07 (5 to 7-minute slow down) ideally compared to cool and dry conditions. A lot of people don't do this correctly though and they end up trying to force a low 3-hour pace and blow up and run 3:15-3:20 instead with a massive slow down in the second half....getting dehydrated and having heatstroke.
For a 2:20 runner, yeah sure maybe it's only a "slow down" of about 2-4 minutes on average compared to if it was 40 or 45 degrees F. Generally the people running 2:20 vs 3:00 are trained a lot more and have lower BMIs also though. It's not rocket science here.
Because one person performed well in the heat doesn't negate that other taller or more muscular people might struggle with heat buildup, even in cooler weather than Sunday. It's basics physics and biology (larger runners produce more heat and have a lower surface area to volume ratio to disperse heat).
Because one person performed well in the heat doesn't negate that other taller or more muscular people might struggle with heat buildup, even in cooler weather than Sunday. It's basics physics and biology (larger runners produce more heat and have a lower surface area to volume ratio to disperse heat).
It's idiotic to think that everybody will be impacted by heat/sun equally. A tiny bloke like sirpoc is going to have far less heat buildup than someone like the FOD runner.
Because one person performed well in the heat doesn't negate that other taller or more muscular people might struggle with heat buildup, even in cooler weather than Sunday. It's basics physics and biology (larger runners produce more heat and have a lower surface area to volume ratio to disperse heat).
I wasn't racing but it drives me mad seeing this twaddle that because one bloke found it fine then it invalidates other people's experiences despite them having completely different body sizes/muscularity. It's not difficult to understand that people will have different susceptibility to heat/sun.
FOD (sorry to drag you into this but you're an example people will recognise) could have a sauna and hot bath every day for a year and would still be more susceptible to heat than someone half his size.
"Someone half his size"....?! How much do you think some runners weigh?
While it is true that heat generally impacts (time-wise) more of the midpack and back of the marathoners a lot more than the elites, it's not a like a Youtuber who has a lot of time and resources to train can't do some basic "heat training" to help compensate for possible adversity on a warm day. Wearing extra layers in clothing, training more in the afternoon, taking hot baths and trying to visit a sauna etc. The science on heat training is actually pretty solid and can go a long way fyi.
Sure genetics and surface area (body size) play a role, but it's also about general depth of fitness and getting used to "running hot" and knowing how to adjust hydration on the fly.
How hot was it in London exactly? low 70s? Low humidity? Sure that slows everyone down, but it's not like it was "horrible conditions"....heck a guy ran 2:02!
For a guy around 3:00 who has done some heat training and knows how to pace and hydrate and adjust for the conditions I'd say you're looking at a 3:05-3:07 (5 to 7-minute slow down) ideally compared to cool and dry conditions. A lot of people don't do this correctly though and they end up trying to force a low 3-hour pace and blow up and run 3:15-3:20 instead with a massive slow down in the second half....getting dehydrated and having heatstroke.
For a 2:20 runner, yeah sure maybe it's only a "slow down" of about 2-4 minutes on average compared to if it was 40 or 45 degrees F. Generally the people running 2:20 vs 3:00 are trained a lot more and have lower BMIs also though. It's not rocket science here.
High humidity (its the UK, an island nation, that's why 70F+ is always feels pretty hot here). It's also solar radiation of full sun.It's been cold all year bar the week before.
Unless you guessed it would be hot, heat acclimatisation would have been pretty low (yes elites have time to do this but average 2:30+ marathoner here I doubt would have). Once you know its hot (10 day forecast out) there's not huge amount you can do (maybe a couple of sessions straight away).
Also it got roasting from 11am, male elites had nearly finished. Us hobby joggers had to run the second half of a marathon in it.
FWIW: It doesn't make anyones light shine any brighter, distinguishing someone else's.
The restricted supplies are by design, not an accident
I'm sure they are.
But its still stupid! And all it does is drive your potential customers to your competitors.
Right now I'm coming to the end of the life of my Novablasts. I will need some more. Since we all run pretty regularly, and we aren't prepared to wait 3-4 weeks for stock that may or may not be soon to drop. But given its hard to get a good colourway and/or the size I want. I've been looking elsewhere for a replacement daily.
Extrapolate that out for the hundreds of thousands of people in the same situation
If you cant get Asics. You'll look at New Balance, Nike, Adidas and Saucony.
Risk there is that the customer might prefer their product, and you wont see them again for a while if at all!
High humidity (its the UK, an island nation, that's why 70F+ is always feels pretty hot here). It's also solar radiation of full sun.It's been cold all year bar the week before.
Unless you guessed it would be hot, heat acclimatisation would have been pretty low (yes elites have time to do this but average 2:30+ marathoner here I doubt would have). Once you know its hot (10 day forecast out) there's not huge amount you can do (maybe a couple of sessions straight away).
Also it got roasting from 11am, male elites had nearly finished. Us hobby joggers had to run the second half of a marathon in it.
FWIW: It doesn't make anyones light shine any brighter, distinguishing someone else's.
And then there's also the urban heat island effect, the direct sun, the insanely close packing of thousands of other runners who are also producing vast amounts of heat within feet of you on all sides. I just did a session on Sunday and was cooked by the end even without all the other runners near me, real jolt after spring.
Sage, worth noting Vivian Cheruiyot is only 39kg, so in some cases (my ex-rowing bros), yes, literally half the size (although I was clearly not meaning it literally).
Of course some people will have gone off far too fast and blown up, Ben chasing an absurd time based on what I'd seen, and philly I'm guessing going with the faster pacing pack to avoid running solo. This happens in every marathon. It doesn't mean that heat wasn't a factor for many good runners. These things are not mutually exclusive.
It's idiotic to think that everybody will be impacted by heat/sun equally. A tiny bloke like sirpoc is going to have far less heat buildup than someone like the FOD runner.
Because one person performed well in the heat doesn't negate that other taller or more muscular people might struggle with heat buildup, even in cooler weather than Sunday. It's basics physics and biology (larger runners produce more heat and have a lower surface area to volume ratio to disperse heat).
I wasn't racing but it drives me mad seeing this twaddle that because one bloke found it fine then it invalidates other people's experiences despite them having completely different body sizes/muscularity. It's not difficult to understand that people will have different susceptibility to heat/sun.
FOD (sorry to drag you into this but you're an example people will recognise) could have a sauna and hot bath every day for a year and would still be more susceptible to heat than someone half his size.
"Someone half his size"....?! How much do you think some runners weigh?
While it is true that heat generally impacts (time-wise) more of the midpack and back of the marathoners a lot more than the elites, it's not a like a Youtuber who has a lot of time and resources to train can't do some basic "heat training" to help compensate for possible adversity on a warm day. Wearing extra layers in clothing, training more in the afternoon, taking hot baths and trying to visit a sauna etc. The science on heat training is actually pretty solid and can go a long way fyi.
Sure genetics and surface area (body size) play a role, but it's also about general depth of fitness and getting used to "running hot" and knowing how to adjust hydration on the fly.
How hot was it in London exactly? low 70s? Low humidity? Sure that slows everyone down, but it's not like it was "horrible conditions"....heck a guy ran 2:02!
For a guy around 3:00 who has done some heat training and knows how to pace and hydrate and adjust for the conditions I'd say you're looking at a 3:05-3:07 (5 to 7-minute slow down) ideally compared to cool and dry conditions. A lot of people don't do this correctly though and they end up trying to force a low 3-hour pace and blow up and run 3:15-3:20 instead with a massive slow down in the second half....getting dehydrated and having heatstroke.
For a 2:20 runner, yeah sure maybe it's only a "slow down" of about 2-4 minutes on average compared to if it was 40 or 45 degrees F. Generally the people running 2:20 vs 3:00 are trained a lot more and have lower BMIs also though. It's not rocket science here.
Imagine down voting this response or trying to argue with SAGE CANADAY. Sage is literally referencing the science. The affects of temperature on marathon runners in various conditions and pacing has been studied ad nauseum - he is not wrong on this one
Imagine down voting this response or trying to argue with SAGE CANADAY. Sage is literally referencing the science. The affects of temperature on marathon runners in various conditions and pacing has been studied ad nauseum - he is not wrong on this one
Ermm the literature is pretty clear that body size does play a large role in thermal balance. And there's tons of evidence about heat adaption, individual variability etc. Do you not think it's weird how there's some triathletes and cyclists that perform really well in heat, and others in the cold? Or do you just think the latter aren't trying heat protocols? The top runners are all similar body shape/sizes so you don't see as much variation variation at the very pointy end of elite running as in other sports.
I like Sage but as the awesome sauce 'the water evaporating changes the carb composition' wtf-ery shows why you might not want to reply on the appeal to authority.
Yes he's right in that people could have started at PB minus 5 minute pace and been fine, but if it's your one marathon for the year and all your training through spring has suggested you're going to be faster than PB pace then you'll probably set off at PB pace or quicker. Only about 10 miles in do you realise that the heat is more of a factor than you'd thought.
Imagine down voting this response or trying to argue with SAGE CANADAY. Sage is literally referencing the science. The affects of temperature on marathon runners in various conditions and pacing has been studied ad nauseum - he is not wrong on this one
Ermm the literature is pretty clear that body size does play a large role in thermal balance. And there's tons of evidence about heat adaption, individual variability etc. Do you not think it's weird how there's some triathletes and cyclists that perform really well in heat, and others in the cold? Or do you just think the latter aren't trying heat protocols? The top runners are all similar body shape/sizes so you don't see as much variation variation at the very pointy end of elite running as in other sports.
I like Sage but as the awesome sauce 'the water evaporating changes the carb composition' wtf-ery shows why you might not want to reply on the appeal to authority.
Yes he's right in that people could have started at PB minus 5 minute pace and been fine, but if it's your one marathon for the year and all your training through spring has suggested you're going to be faster than PB pace then you'll probably set off at PB pace or quicker. Only about 10 miles in do you realise that the heat is more of a factor than you'd thought.
The “heat” is a poor excuse as there were literally no headwinds to battle this year.
2024 we had 10mph winds west to east (ie a headwind for close to 2/3s of the race).
2023 it chucked it down with rain and was very cold / windy.
London simply doesn’t get perfect conditions but I’d say 2025 was the best of the past few years.
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