Mihaly Igloi

HRE wrote:

Inquiry minds want to know wrote:

Me neither. Strange names on this site that I never heard of. 🤔

And yet the odds are he was much faster than you.

I'm not sure if this last comment was meant for me or the other poster, but I won't argue that point. That doesn't change the fact that I've never heard of him. Just about all of us have people who are faster that we've never heard of.

Peter,

I really am no one special, other than I ran with all three coaches mentioned in an earlier discussion: Mihaly Igloi, Joe Douglas and Lazlo Tabori.

I also read your book on middle distance training.

Igy

One common way of disparaging runners on this board is often to ask, "Who?" I don't know if you were doing that or not and I'm not even sure he was faster than you are. But he was faster than most of us who post here so I just thought I'd point out that he was legitimate.

mark b wrote:

Internationally, Igloi's runners would have peaked at the 1956 Olympics - but politcs, in the shape of the Russian invasion of Hungary, intervened. Some of his great athletes never arrived in Melbourne, all of them ran well below their best. British great Gordon Pirie says in his autobiography that Kuts could have been beaten by one of them (forget which one, sorry).

If this had happened Igloi's reputation would stand considerably higher today than it does. This despite the fact that he produced world class runners in two very different countries with totally different cultures.

Also, the lack of any published work by Igloi has hurt his legacy, compared to, say, his contemporaries Stamphl, Cerutty and Lydiard who all left books still widely read today.

i'll go a little further than igy and say that i think this is a rare spot-on assessment from someone who appears not to have been directly involved with igloi or his immediate successors. and, as pointed out by another earlier poster, there was definitely some "cross-pollenation" of coaching philosophies in that era that influenced all of those who followed. i suspect tabori followed igloi's principles more closely (that is not to say it was with equal, greater or less success) than joe douglas, who i think felt comfortable enough to depart from igloi's practices in certain ways, but perhaps ghost would have a different assessment having trained under all three...

"Cross-pollination" is a trait associated with all good coaches. Just as Mihaly mentored younger coaches, so to was he mentored. He would be the first to admit this.

I would say the difference between the three, when I ran for them:

Igloi would structure the training around blocks of 100s, 150s, 200s, 250s, and 300s; all never times. Other sessions with emphasis on sets of 400s or 800s, and an occasional 1200 for time.

Joe was big on tempo runs, followed by traditional Igloi type intervals. Sometimes I ran tempos, intervals and tempos.

Tabori on the other hand, I would run hard 1200s, 1600s, 2000s, or 2400s. Sometimes multiple in ladder format. These were run at 3k/5k race pace.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi,

Thanks for adding your uncommon knowledge on Igloi and his training. I've read a few threads on Igloi over the last year, and have tried to incorporate Igloi-esque training, through wide experimentation, into my training about 3 times per week. I wonder if you could provide some insight for me.

Over time, I have tried workouts, for example, of 3x10x400, with half or 3/4 rest, followed by fast strides of 150 at what mechanically, I deem to be a kicking-type of mechanics, which is what I assume is what Igloi meant by "fast swing."

Lately, I have begun to replace a couple sets how I interpret Igloi's training with a shorter tempo-ish run of no more than 3 miles, followed by 400's, 300's, or 200's. I feel the tempo gets me to a "red line" which I then continue at a faster pace using repetitions. This sounds like it could be similar to Joe's spinoff of Igloi training. Could you please elaborate, and if possible, provide an example or two of some typical workouts? Thanks very much, and thanks again for your contributions.

And I meant to add that I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who ran Igloi training, especially what the specific workouts were, and any context. thanks.

my boy,

Happy to provide some insight. Let me start by giving my thanks to all three coaches who did more for me than I can ever repay.

Let me start with the topic of cadence of "swing" and "speed." "Swing" cadence had a longer swing from the hip stride, with less knee and arm drive. "Speed" cadence was a shorter quicker stride, with emphasis on knee and arm drive. "Swing" cadence was used most often with "fresh" and "good" paces, Daniels' equivalent of tempo or interval paces. "Speed" cadence most common at "good, hard, very hard and all-out" paces, or Daniels interval, repetition or fast.

A sample 5/10k training for Coach Joe Douglas might look some thing like this: 20 minutes fresh on the roads; 10-12 miles of traditional "Igloi intervals" of good and hard paces (recovery interval was typically half the repetition distance; with 400 meter jogs between blocks of 1-2 miles). Keep in mind there was a morning session that preceded the evening session, which typically would be 1200 meters warm-up, 30 x 200 meters with varying paces and cadences (example 10 x 200 meters good swing / 100 meters easy; 10 x 200 meters good speed / 100 meters easy; 10 x 200 meters hard speed / 100 meters easy ); followed by 600 meters cool-down

A sample 10k/marathon training for Coach Douglas would be similar to this: 30 minutes fresh on the roads; 12-16 miles of "Igloi intervals" followed by another tempo run of 20 minutes. This type of evening session last from 5:30-8:30 pm, and was preceded by a morning session from 6:30-7:30 am. Similar to the workout outlined above but 40 x 200 meters of various speed and cadence broken into sets.

The tempo runs were at around 5:15-5:30 per mile; good around 4:40-5:00; hard 4:00-4:20; all-out/very hard 50-55 400 meter pace. Good and hard paces were rarely run over 400 meters, and all-out and very hard 200 meters or less. Tempos as described were off track, and most of these I ran alone with no supervision.

Hope this helps.

Igy

WOW, incredible. I imagine that mental toughness was nearly as great a product of this training as physical fitness. Looking at those example workouts, it's easy to see that this kind of volume and training is applicable to 5k or 10k racer. For some reason, it seems like people assume that Igloi's training is only suitable for 800-1500, according to our more recent ideas of training.

my boy,

I started training with Coach Douglas July 1972. The first year was more traditional Igloi. My second year he added the tempos in fall of 1973, and I really blossomed under that element. At the time I was working full-time, marriage followed in 1974. I had a good run that fall 1973 to summer 1974. It comes with a cost however. I could only muster that single minded focus that brief period of months, really.

That said, I was one of the early club runners under Coach Douglas. SoCal Cush who posts here can give you a different perspective in his later years with SMTC. Cush can also outline how it was different for the 1500 meter athlete.

Igy

Spicer wrote:

A J Herbert wrote:

I was the only one to train with Igloi and Tabori...... then Joe Douglas

That's very cool. Imagine not only training with all three, but being the only one who ever did.

That's pretty special...one of a kind. Thanks for contributing to the thread.

For a 100m runner, would Igloi be a better method then Lydiard?

Neither, I would go with Leroy Burrell.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Neither, I would go with Leroy Burrell.

Igy

Okay, poorly worded. A sprinter moving up to 5k/10k for fun. Maybe a Nick Symmonds situation.

wondering- wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Neither, I would go with Leroy Burrell.

Igy

Okay, poorly worded. A sprinter moving up to 5k/10k for fun. Maybe a Nick Symmonds situation.

Definitely Lydiard. His methods are more in tune with taking a "newbie" and developing them.

Igloi's methods require a certain developmental level to begin with. He’s not for everyone.

Coach Farnum wrote:

wondering- wrote:

Okay, poorly worded. A sprinter moving up to 5k/10k for fun. Maybe a Nick Symmonds situation.

Definitely Lydiard. His methods are more in tune with taking a "newbie" and developing them.

Igloi's methods require a certain developmental level to begin with. He’s not for everyone.

So you wouldn't consider someone like Usain Bolt to have this "developmental level"? Can I assume you're talking aerobic development rather then musculoskeletal?

wondering- wrote:

Coach Farnum wrote:

Definitely Lydiard. His methods are more in tune with taking a "newbie" and developing them.

Igloi's methods require a certain developmental level to begin with. He’s not for everyone.

So you wouldn't consider someone like Usain Bolt to have this "developmental level"? Can I assume you're talking aerobic development rather then musculoskeletal?

World class sprinters like Bolt have a certain level of aerobic development. Most sub-elite sprinters shy away from that type of training.

Aerobic and musculoskeletal development cannot be completely separated for 5k/10k runners.

How much rest is recommended during the 40x100 workout? And also what kind of rest? Active, standing, walking?