NEW Atlantic Region XC *2009* thread

smellyshoes - I understand your point but Heymann beating Ramsey by 30 seconds or so is much less damaging than Plattsburgh's 58 second spread. There are simply going to be many more displacing runners around Platt's 4 and 5 at regionals/NCAA's than there will be around Heymann and Ramsey.

Suppose there are "a lot" of people between Ramsey and Heymann at regionals or NCAA's. If you take the regionals results from last year and move Ramsey back 30 seconds off of Heymann, like you suggest, he comes in 15th in 26:19 as opposed to Heymann's 8th in 25:49, a 7 point difference.

Plattsburgh lost nearly than many points this weekend, at a very small meet, between their 3 (Grimm 15:45 in 6th) and 4 (Sico 16:07 in 12th). Again, there are going to be many more runners between Platt's #3 and 4 than there will be between Ramsey and Heymann.

Look at regionals from last year again. This weekend Grimm and Sico had 22 seconds between them. Assume that Grimm has had some good improvement from XC last year and he finishes this year around where Ben Jackson did last year (16th, right around Wager, Stenuf, Williams, Greenlaw etc). If you call Sico Platt's #4 and use the 22 seconds gap between he and Grimm from this weekend, the two would finish in 16th and 30th respectively (26:20 and 26:42). In other words, its a 14 pt difference between a loose 3/4 spread vs a 7 pt difference if Heymann crushes Ramsey.

Then you have to consider the same thing between the #4 and #5 runners. Again, the 58 second spread is going to make a huge difference at a championship caliber meet and Platt's spread is, right now, twice as big as SLU's.

If Heymann ran just to win and outkicked Ramsey at the line, it would only be a 43 second spread. Much better sounding than 59 seconds. You can't base everything off of a spread on 9/5 between 1st and 5th runners, especially when Plattsburgh's first was almost 20 seconds out. gap from 2-5 from both teams make it look closer and is a more realistic comparison SLU- 27 seconds, Platts- 36 seconds. SLU is the better team, this is a dumb argument, my point was just that in the age old argument of front runner led teams versus pack teams, in a big race it is probably 50/50 as long as 4-5 aren't that far back from 2-3. In Plattsburgh's case they are already better than last year from the looks of it and SLU is a top 10 team, both teams are in good spots and have put the pressure on RIT, Fredonia and whoever else wants a bid.

ALSO both teams were missing an important runner

SLU- Kip

Plattsburgh- Lomax

Both are returning top 5 runners, both add depth and decrease spread.

Sorry for the confusion I wasn't comparing to last years regionals. I suppose I should have prefaced "based on the result from last weekend." Oh wait I did on 4 different occasions.

P.S. Mike I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I just didn't realize you were so sensitive. I think SLU is better than Plattsburgh it was just the logic works both ways.

Ok maybe I didn't make myself clear. It was the omission of the fact that the better front runner from the two perspective teams, (this scenario is Plattsburgh and SLU) adds points to 5 runners from SLU and only 4 from PSU. I never said Plattsburgh would beat SLU in a bigger meet or at regionals. I actually said SLU was the better team. I just wanted to bring both points to the table regarding front runners and pack times.

Good point about the missing runners, but I think that that just adds to the stupidity of this argument.

Kiplagat- 58th at NCAAs

Lomax- 244th

There's no argument here, I can't see Platt beating SLU this year, and judging by those 5k results, in any years to come.

In hopes of putting the SLU v Plattsburgh debate to rest, can SLU beat Geneseo, Cortland or NYU?

The Missing Link wrote:

can SLU beat Geneseo, Cortland or NYU?

Now there's the real question. Unfortunately I don't think anyone can put a well thought out argument on the table yet because we haven't seen anything from Cortland or Geneseo.

So here's my OPINION, since I have no results from those two yet. I think that right now, NYU and SLU look quite even, though I give NYU the nod because they had a tighter 1-5 pack last weekend. I do believe, though, that Ramsey and Mwenda are both better than anyone NYU has, just a question of by how much. I don't think Cortland will have as tight a pack this year, but they will still have a great front runner in Dubois. Right now I'll still put Cortland in first. Who knows about Geneseo. We need more results.

Also, RIT, Fredonia, TCNJ, and Ithaca will have to prove themselves before they have any hope of breaking my top 5.

man, I hope they dont lose sleep over that one. I hear that making Big Will's top 5 is a pretty big goal for most atlantic region teams.

men's and women's previews have been added to the new (?) regional website. they look pretty solid to me, except no RIT in top 10 and i am picking SLU women #1.

easy there mikejomes999 we all get your a SLU alumni. no one is bashing your alma mater. SLU is good we know

They should be awake all night crying. I mean, it's a pretty big deal.

I am hearing rumors that they might have an alumni race at SUNYACS. The would be really interesting...it would be pretty much between Geneseo and Cortland runners imo considering the talent from both. It would be even more exciting to do an alumni race at regionals. So...who would win, who would run, who would be some individuals and lastly will this happen?

Whoa there, my blind hatred is only matched by that of whoa nelly. Lets face it, SLU had some dark days not so long ago, and now I’m enjoying their success. However, I didn’t think my recent comments were hateful, I just thought Honeywell wasn't making any sense. Additionally, I'm proud of being a SLU alumni, I don't think many people on this board try to hide what school they went to.

indeed. Look for ramsey to blow it and slu to suck when it matters.

Is anybody racing this weekend?

geneseo and fredonia at penn state

Anyone know what happened to Kate Ramsbotham and Katie Dylag from Cortland? Both were listed as juniors last year.

Cortand would def have the upper hand in an alumni race at SUNYACS is this were to happen. They just graduated a few studs in Nally and Henry plus add the likes of Cloke and Joslyn, these four with a another solid fifth would destroy any other alumni team out there, not to mention they could probably finish top 5 in the country this year at DIII nationals. The only SUNYAC team that would have a slim chance would be Geneseo if Gallo ran with Ted Turner and Jeff Beck, but this is only a chance. Gallo would take the whole thing but at this point in time, Cortand alum would probably put four in before Geneseo alum would bring in their second, regardless if Ted or Jeff was running. No contest, Cortand alum would crush any other alum at SUNYACS if there were to be an alumni race.