Breaking: Marathon world record Ruth Chepngetich has tested positive - Will Kenya's Parliament apologize to yours truly?

Wise Old Man wrote:

jhand366 wrote:

Good riddance!!! I personally am NOT a fan of the people who accuse everyone of doping, or say the sport isn’t fun anymore before everyone’s doping. But even I knew Ruth’s 2:09 HAD to be drug-induced. Especially after her sub par race that followed (not even being able to run a HM in her marathon world record time).

As for her marathon WR standing, something HAS to be done about that as well! No [clean] woman will EVER break that!!! It might stand as long or longer than the current womens 100-800m record have…..

an idea for people who fail drug tests could be to have all their results an equal amount of time as the suspension time, before the suspension took place, be erased. So if Ruth is being suspended for 2 years starting March 2025, all her results from March 2023 till 2025 are erased. That way people serving short bans for stimulants only have their results erased for a short period of time. Just an idea!

So hard to balance fandom/amazement/denial/skepticism. I try to be a true believer until confronted with the hard negative truth. Chepngetich was always a bit of a bridge too far, but was her 2:09 really much farther out there than Kipyegon's 3:48 or Chebet's 13:58 or Hassan's insane triples or even Hull's 3:50, etc etc. Very hard to know where to draw the line, so for me, I try to believe until the test comes back positive.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Because the response from the agents (like Rosa) is quite simple and kind of impossible to logically debunk:

"How can we be personally responsible for what the athletes are taking?" (shrug shoulders)

And this is the crappy loop-hole that is unfortunately kind of valid. Now full disclosure, do I think that is the case with Rosa et al? No. I think he knows, I think he is part of the conspiracy. But until there is hard proof of that (which would get him tossed from WA's accredited agent list anyway) there is almost no basis to even fine him.

The coaches are far closer on a day to day basis than even the agents are, and honestly, I think many athletes cheat without direct knowledge from their coaches. Say for example you wanted to experiment with a nandrolone/testosterone precursor supplement ready available online which entailed taking two capsules in the morning, two at night - how would a coach know that? So how would an agent know that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not defending this blight (Rosa) - but I guess I'm trying to reason why despite all these busts with his athletes he's still out there functioning and I think it all starts with the "we can't control...." narrative which I bet you has come out of his mouth word for word many times before.

The only solution now to is to cut off his "supply" - the athletes. Kenya has to go, and they can start a "team" like they did with the Russians to enable certain criteria athletes to continue. It is very drastic but it's so out of control (and I've been told by AIU informants even worse than the biggest skeptics think it is) it just has to be done.

The rules should be modified so that Chepngetich is offered a deal. 2 year ban if she cooperates fully and exposes any and all elements of a cheating conspiracy. So, provision of bank records, emails, texts, prescriptions, etc etc. The investigators will determine if her cooperation has been fulsome and transparent. Otherwise, lifetime ban. Any others implicated by her, get a 4 year ban or lifetime ban based on their degree of culpability. If they come forward before the investigation identifies them, same deal 2 yr ban if they cooperate.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Because the response from the agents (like Rosa) is quite simple and kind of impossible to logically debunk:

"How can we be personally responsible for what the athletes are taking?" (shrug shoulders)

And this is the crappy loop-hole that is unfortunately kind of valid. Now full disclosure, do I think that is the case with Rosa et al? No. I think he knows, I think he is part of the conspiracy. But until there is hard proof of that (which would get him tossed from WA's accredited agent list anyway) there is almost no basis to even fine him.

The coaches are far closer on a day to day basis than even the agents are, and honestly, I think many athletes cheat without direct knowledge from their coaches. Say for example you wanted to experiment with a nandrolone/testosterone precursor supplement ready available online which entailed taking two capsules in the morning, two at night - how would a coach know that? So how would an agent know that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not defending this blight (Rosa) - but I guess I'm trying to reason why despite all these busts with his athletes he's still out there functioning and I think it all starts with the "we can't control...." narrative which I bet you has come out of his mouth word for word many times before.

The only solution now to is to cut off his "supply" - the athletes. Kenya has to go, and they can start a "team" like they did with the Russians to enable certain criteria athletes to continue. It is very drastic but it's so out of control (and I've been told by AIU informants even worse than the biggest skeptics think it is) it just has to be done.

tob1909 wrote:

Detective P wrote:

Nobody is explaining the doping strategy. It doesn't make sense to take a very-detectable dose 5 days after a race unless it aids in recovery or adaptation.

As background the drug hydrochlorothiazide is banned as a masking agent. Masking agents are drugs that can be taken to hide the presence of other drugs in your system. In this case she tested positive for hydrochlorothiazide by a long way (3800ng/ml 190 times higher compared to 200ng/ml below which represents a negative). This drug is a diuretic (i.e. will make you pee) and reduces water retention.

Most likely options is she knew she was going to be tested and took a large dose of diuretics to flush her system. If you know you're going to be tested within a few days and you're running hot then you can take a large dose of diuretics to flush the drugs from your system prior to the test by excreting it in urine in the time leading up to the test. Therefore this results in lower undetectable levels of those other drugs but leaving the masking drug's residue. This of course needs some knowledge of upcoming tests but this isn't implausible given her high profile and likely connections in Kenyan athletics.

Therefore the masking agent is not expected to provide fitness benefits but is banned as it can be used to hide evidence of actual PEDs.

rojo wrote:

tob1909 wrote:

As background the drug hydrochlorothiazide is banned as a masking agent. Masking agents are drugs that can be taken to hide the presence of other drugs in your system. In this case she tested positive for hydrochlorothiazide by a long way (3800ng/ml 190 times higher compared to 200ng/ml below which represents a negative). This drug is a diuretic (i.e. will make you pee) and reduces water retention.

Most likely options is she knew she was going to be tested and took a large dose of diuretics to flush her system. If you know you're going to be tested within a few days and you're running hot then you can take a large dose of diuretics to flush the drugs from your system prior to the test by excreting it in urine in the time leading up to the test. Therefore this results in lower undetectable levels of those other drugs but leaving the masking drug's residue. This of course needs some knowledge of upcoming tests but this isn't implausible given her high profile and likely connections in Kenyan athletics.

Therefore the masking agent is not expected to provide fitness benefits but is banned as it can be used to hide evidence of actual PEDs.

I will admit one aspect of this makes no sense.

Why do you need a masking agent at all? When you are glowing, just stay in your house on your treadmill and don't answer the door. Mo's doorbell.

Unless, she was on 2 missed tests, I wouldn't bother with a diuretic. It just makes you more likely to test postiive, right? This is why I wish the AIU published a missed test list. Can someone tell me why a sophisticated doper would bother with a diurectic?

Just micro dose and don't answer the door. Of course, some of these doping outfits aren't that sophisticated.