Ruth Chepngetich just ruined the sport of marathon

Paul T wrote:

Why is anyone spending an ounce of their energy dissecting this. Putting forth any thought regarding anyone’s potential doping is useless.

On this forum, we have writers expressing their beliefs: some state that a particular athlete is clean and others are dirty. How does anyone know? Kiptum was dirty because he was a polygamist, Neguse is clean because he is a nice guy? Ruth is dirty because her 10k time doesn’t equate to a 2:10?

If anyone reading here is actually trying to better themselves as a runner, or otherwise, maybe don’t contribute or even follow running, as it only puts more noise in your life.

Before you think I am saying everyone is clean, I remind that whenever there is money, fame or power on the line, there will be cheating, sport or not. of course there is doping in all sports. I ask why anyone chooses to use their energy dissecting this topic. Furthermore, if any of us has every taken crib notes into a test, or such, we don’t have a podium to speak from. 99% of the population does not have a voice when pointing out cheaters, including me.

I will sum it up by saying it is a waste of time to let the ego get the best of you worrying about who is clean or dirty. I’d just suggest doing all of the right things to make yourself shine, whether you are a 29mi or 40min 10k performer. Your brain is the control center of destiny.

Khamis wrote:

Redonculous Maximus wrote:

I'm convinced that Chepngetich's 2:09 = Paula's 2:15 adjusted for SuperShoes. Paula's 2:!5 was such an outlier for so long that others struggled to get within 2 minutes of it. So if you believe one is/was on PEDs, then naturally it stands to reason that the other is/was. Conversely if you believe one is/was clean, then it stands to reason that the other is/was as well. Question is whether Ruth's 2:09 is a one-off outlier or if (a) she'll be able to repeat it, and (b) whether we'll have a flood of similar performances from other athletes.

My take: they're both probably pharmaceutically enhanced performances.

Hmmmmm I'm a little unsure about Paula although I'm on the side that says she is clean because well she is BRITISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love the British European moral ideal!!!!!!!!! British runners have a way too consecrated tradition and ritual with long distance running and Christianity together integrated to be doping you feeling me sir????????????????? And this tradition HAS NOT been mocked and profaned throughout the decades and centuries unlike in Kenya where as you know the young boys and young girls have all but forfeited their souls to Satan and chased after the lusts of their flesh you feeling me????????

I stand by Great Britain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are the original connoisseurs of the sport!!!!!!

Paul T wrote:

Why is anyone spending an ounce of their energy dissecting this. Putting forth any thought regarding anyone’s potential doping is useless.

On this forum, we have writers expressing their beliefs: some state that a particular athlete is clean and others are dirty. How does anyone know? Kiptum was dirty because he was a polygamist, Neguse is clean because he is a nice guy? Ruth is dirty because her 10k time doesn’t equate to a 2:10?

If anyone reading here is actually trying to better themselves as a runner, or otherwise, maybe don’t contribute or even follow running, as it only puts more noise in your life.

Before you think I am saying everyone is clean, I remind that whenever there is money, fame or power on the line, there will be cheating, sport or not. of course there is doping in all sports. I ask why anyone chooses to use their energy dissecting this topic. Furthermore, if any of us has every taken crib notes into a test, or such, we don’t have a podium to speak from. 99% of the population does not have a voice when pointing out cheaters, including me.

I will sum it up by saying it is a waste of time to let the ego get the best of you worrying about who is clean or dirty. I’d just suggest doing all of the right things to make yourself shine, whether you are a 29mi or 40min 10k performer. Your brain is the control center of destiny.

rekrunner wrote:

Ruxton Towers XC wrote:

See the above post to There is No Special Sauce.

Or look at the results of the Tour de France from the 1990s. Or listen to interviews with people who took EPO and T. Tyler Hamilton can tell you what it feels like when you can ride so hard that the peleton can't keep up. Drugs work. We know they work because we see them in medicine every day. If they work in medicine, why wouldn't they work in sport?

Or read this long, boring science website:

Link:www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7...

Not a very compelling link when we are talking about actual competition.

"However, there is limited consensus in the literature regarding its true performance-enhancing effects. In fact, some studies suggest there is no conclusive evidence;"

"Overall, there is low-to-moderate quality evidence suggesting rHuEPO may be more beneficial than placebo in enhancing haematological parameters, pulmonary measures, maximal power output and time to exhaustion independent of dosage. However, these improvements are almost exclusively seen during maximal exercise intensities, which may be less relevant to athletic competition conditions."

"Due to heterogeneity among trials, more high-quality randomised controlled trials with larger sample sizes in conditions that mirror actual competition are needed to further elucidate these effects."

Khamis wrote:

Redonculous Maximus wrote:

I'm convinced that Chepngetich's 2:09 = Paula's 2:15 adjusted for SuperShoes. Paula's 2:!5 was such an outlier for so long that others struggled to get within 2 minutes of it. So if you believe one is/was on PEDs, then naturally it stands to reason that the other is/was. Conversely if you believe one is/was clean, then it stands to reason that the other is/was as well. Question is whether Ruth's 2:09 is a one-off outlier or if (a) she'll be able to repeat it, and (b) whether we'll have a flood of similar performances from other athletes.

My take: they're both probably pharmaceutically enhanced performances.

Hmmmmm I'm a little unsure about Paula although I'm on the side that says she is clean because well she is BRITISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love the British European moral ideal!!!!!!!!! British runners have a way too consecrated tradition and ritual with long distance running and Christianity together integrated to be doping you feeling me sir????????????????? And this tradition HAS NOT been mocked and profaned throughout the decades and centuries unlike in Kenya where as you know the young boys and young girls have all but forfeited their souls to Satan and chased after the lusts of their flesh you feeling me????????

I stand by Great Britain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are the original connoisseurs of the sport!!!!!!

Renato Canova wrote:

Of course the new WR can seem unbilievable, but one of the reasons is that the most part of runners (and coaches...) don't have a real idea about which percentage of speed of the PB of 10000m is possible to maintain in a full marathon when the athlete is specifically prepared for the full distance (I mean REALLY prepared, not to THINK that is prepared.....).

I want to give PB of European athletes (after this we can speak of African, but I prefer to stay in the field of western runners) for 10000m, HM and Marathon, with the percentage of speed athletes are able to run comparing with the speed for the marathon.

Sondre Moen - 27'55" (road) (2'47"5/km) - 59'48" (2'50"/km) - 2:05:48 (2:58.8/km)

Percentage HM / 10000m : 98.5% - Mar / 10000m : 93.7% - Mar / HM : 95.1%

Amanal Petros - 27'32" (2'45"2) - 60:09 (2'54"8) - 2:04:58 (2'57"6)

HM / 10000m : 94.5% - Mar / 10000m : 93% - Mar / HM : 98.4%

Tadesse Abraham - 28'28" (road) (2'50"8 / km) - 59'53" (2'50"3) - 2:05:01 (2'57"7)

HM / 10000m : 99.8% - Mar / 10000m : 96.1% - Mar / HM : 95.8%

Migidio Bourifa - 29'24" (2'56"4) - 62'43" (2'58"3) - 2:09:07 (3'03"5)

HM / 10000m : 98.9 % - Mar / 10000m : 96.1% - Mar / HM : 97.1%

Kenenisa Bekele - 26'17" (2'37"7) - 2:01:41 (2'53")

Mar / 10000m : 91.2%

Eliud Kipchoge - 26'49" (2'40"9) - 58'20" (estimated - 2'45"8) - 2:01:09 (2'52"2)

HM / 10000m : 97% - Mar / 10000m : 93.4% - Mar / HM : 96.3 %

We can see that the average of speed specialized marathon runners can develop (compared with their PB in 10000m) can be about 93%, while the percentage of speed used for running HM (from 10000m) is around 97%, and HM-Marathon is 96%.

This means that athletes preparing marathon, comparing their PB in 10000m and the possible PB in marathon, can run with proper training in the following times :

28'00" (94% = 2'58"1) in 2:05 - 2:06

28'20" (94% = 3'00"2) in 2:06:30 - 2:07

28'40" (94% = 3'02"3) in 2:08 - 2:08:30

29'00" (94% = 3'04"5) in 2:09 - 2:09:30

29'20" (94% = 3'06"6) in 2:10:30 - 2:11

29'40" (94% = 3'08"7) in 2:12:30 - 2:13:0

30'00" (94% = 3'10"8) in 2:14 - 2:15

This means that in many Countries (particularly in US and UK) at the moment there is not a correct idea of the performances athletes can achieve, according their PB in 10 km, if start to do proper training, without thinking that workouts like 3 times 3 miles at Marathon Pace with 1 mile recovery at 80% of MP are something specific : if there is specific speed, the volume of training and the length of the workout is not enough ; if on the contrary length and volume are enough, the speed is too slow and it's not possible to have metabolic adaptation to the distance at given pace.