It has been claimed earlier on this thread that no one likely has a better cv in history over the 1500-5k at age 22. So that's effectively suggesting he is the best ever 22 year old md or distance runner. (I still don't agree with that). But it is important that you shift the goal posts to make it easier for Jakob. One way of doing it is to now claim he's in the "top ten' for his age - which, if it had been stated at the outset, I would probably have not disputed.
You now say it's only "possible" he may be the GOAT - which isn't really worth debating, since what is "possible" may be only a very small chance - and it isn't what he is claiming, which is that he will finish his career as the best in history. It may be "possible", as you now say, but I think it extremely unlikely. But he would probably be in contention for being amongst the top ten in history at the end of his career - or even the top five if he continues to add to his achievements.
No, the claim he is the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k suggests he is the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k. You understand now?
You don't agree? Who has done better for you? Elliott with no results above the Mile?
Just give a name, than we can compare.
I have not shifted anything just by an inch, Dumb.
Making it easier for Ingebrigtsen? What's your point, Dumb?
Distance running: 800m and longer.
Best up to and including age 22:
Definitely Bekele (12:37.35 +26:20.31) and Gebrselassie (12:44.38 + 26:43.53).
Coe (1:42.33 + 3:32.03 + 3:48.95).
I'm sure you can give many more names when you are untcertain if Ingebrigtsen is in the top 10 .
But I see you got the point you were wrongly discussing now after just 10+ pages. What has happend?
What a load of pointless piffle. Anything to try to inflate Jakob's achievements. So when will he be the GOAT, as he claims is his goal?
What a load of pointless piffle. Anything to try to inflate Jakob's achievements. So when will he be the GOAT, as he claims is his goal?
You say he was not the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k. Just give a name who has done better, than we can compare.
You are not sure that he is within the top ten at age 22 in distance running. Just give some more names who have done better, than we can compare.
When will he be the GOAT? You are certain he will be at some point? I wouldn't be so certain. But definitely not before 2028,
The question and the criteria you use are irrelevant because it doesn't put him any closer to being the greatest runner of all time. There are runners who were better at either distance who come closer to that than he has. The only way he becomes the GOAT is that he shows he is unquestionably better than any other md/distance runner who has ever lived. Wightman and Kerr have already ended that discussion. Jakob may be a great runner but he will never be the greatest who has ever lived - as this thread has shown. There are too many other great runners in history who have accomplished what he hasn't and never will (and don't bore me with irrelevant recitations of his times. You can't compare times in different eras - but only the era the athlete competes in).
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Most posters on this thread have confused the "most versatile runner" with the "greatest". They aren't the same. No runner, however versatile and whatever their range, is a greater sprinter than Bolt. He is the best there ever has been at what he does. That is what the "greatest" means. It doesn't mean a runner is good at a whole range of distances. So there will be the greatest one lap runner ever, the greatest 800m runner, the greatest 1500/mile runner, the greatest 5k/10k runner, the greatest marathon runner. A runner can only be the best at their specialist events, because no runner can succeed in all events, and being merely good at a bunch doesn't make a runner better than the specialist who is the best at what they do. Bekele had great range and versatility as a distance runner but he couldn't be considered the distance GOAT if he wasn't the best - in his prime - at his specialty championship distances - the 5k and 10k. That's the core of his greatness. That kind of dominance is what Jakob would have to achieve to be in contention for the GOAT; he would have to dominate his specialist events as Bekele once did. Or El G.
This post was edited 51 seconds after it was posted.
You said cross training was running on a treadmill. You argued with me, defending your statement.
Have you noticed how people here can talk to others without insulting them but you can't? It shows how how low your EQ is. And people with a low EQ tend to ignore evidence that proves they are wrong.
Work on it, man. It's never too late.
You might follow your own advice. I didn't say it is the only form of cross-training. A simple distinction but beyond you.
Lemme help you girls out: If you're a runner, cross training is doing something that's not running.
You say he was not the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k. Just give a name who has done better, than we can compare.
You are not sure that he is within the top ten at age 22 in distance running. Just give some more names who have done better, than we can compare.
When will he be the GOAT? You are certain he will be at some point? I wouldn't be so certain. But definitely not before 2028,
The question and the criteria you use are irrelevant because it doesn't put him any closer to being the greatest runner of all time. There are runners who were better at either distance who come closer to that than he has. The only way he becomes the GOAT is that he shows he is unquestionably better than any other md/distance runner who has ever lived. Wightman and Kerr have already ended that discussion. Jakob may be a great runner but he will never be the greatest who has ever lived - as this thread has shown. There are too many other great runners in history who have accomplished what he hasn't and never will (and don't bore me with irrelevant recitations of his times. You can't compare times in different eras - but only the era the athlete competes in).
A question doesn't put him closer to being GOAT. What an observation - a pure armdumb.
Armdumb questioned those two points:
- Ingebrigtsen is the best 22 years old from 1500m to 5k
- Ingebrigtsen is among the top ten at age 22 in distance running
When pressed to just give some names (which he can't) - he comes up with such an observation.
That's his way of discussing something: before admitting to be wrong he changes the subject. Always.
Most posters on this thread have confused the "most versatile runner" with the "greatest". They aren't the same. No runner, however versatile and whatever their range, is a greater sprinter than Bolt. He is the best there ever has been at what he does. That is what the "greatest" means. It doesn't mean a runner is good at a whole range of distances. So there will be the greatest one lap runner ever, the greatest 800m runner, the greatest 1500/mile runner, the greatest 5k/10k runner, the greatest marathon runner. A runner can only be the best at their specialist events, because no runner can succeed in all events, and being merely good at a bunch doesn't make a runner better than the specialist who is the best at what they do. Bekele had great range and versatility as a distance runner but he couldn't be considered the distance GOAT if he wasn't the best - in his prime - at his specialty championship distances - the 5k and 10k. That's the core of his greatness. That kind of dominance is what Jakob would have to achieve to be in contention for the GOAT; he would have to dominate his specialist events as Bekele once did. Or El G.
Who has confused this?
As Dumb has realised during this thread there never can be an ultimate answer to such questions. It's highly subjective.
Now he again thinks to have the ultimate truth.
For sure someone can rank a runner who was amongst the best at a variety of distances above someone who dominated a single event without success at other distances.
The only distance runner who really can't be questioned to be number one in his event is El Guerrouj (no one is close) in the 1500m/Mile. So, for Dumb he is te GOAT distance runner. For me Bekele and Gebrselassie are ahead. Others might vote for Kipchoge or maybe even Rudisha? Zatopek? Nurmi? Who ultimately want's to decide who is right and who is wrong? Only someone like Dumbstrong.
Most posters on this thread have confused the "most versatile runner" with the "greatest". They aren't the same. No runner, however versatile and whatever their range, is a greater sprinter than Bolt. He is the best there ever has been at what he does. That is what the "greatest" means. It doesn't mean a runner is good at a whole range of distances. So there will be the greatest one lap runner ever, the greatest 800m runner, the greatest 1500/mile runner, the greatest 5k/10k runner, the greatest marathon runner. A runner can only be the best at their specialist events, because no runner can succeed in all events, and being merely good at a bunch doesn't make a runner better than the specialist who is the best at what they do. Bekele had great range and versatility as a distance runner but he couldn't be considered the distance GOAT if he wasn't the best - in his prime - at his specialty championship distances - the 5k and 10k. That's the core of his greatness. That kind of dominance is what Jakob would have to achieve to be in contention for the GOAT; he would have to dominate his specialist events as Bekele once did. Or El G.
I agree with your reasoning here -I think Jakob in reality have to break three championship events WR’s (Bekele was 2 sec shy of his third), or only break two of them by a Bolt like margin (+ gold medals)…-Not easy to achieve..!
Running consists of several different events, not one event, so to be the best runner you have to succeed at as many different distances as possible.
Wrong. While the sport consists of several different events the best runners are those who are the best at their event not those who run the most events.
Most posters on this thread have confused the "most versatile runner" with the "greatest". They aren't the same. No runner, however versatile and whatever their range, is a greater sprinter than Bolt. He is the best there ever has been at what he does. That is what the "greatest" means. It doesn't mean a runner is good at a whole range of distances. So there will be the greatest one lap runner ever, the greatest 800m runner, the greatest 1500/mile runner, the greatest 5k/10k runner, the greatest marathon runner. A runner can only be the best at their specialist events, because no runner can succeed in all events, and being merely good at a bunch doesn't make a runner better than the specialist who is the best at what they do. Bekele had great range and versatility as a distance runner but he couldn't be considered the distance GOAT if he wasn't the best - in his prime - at his specialty championship distances - the 5k and 10k. That's the core of his greatness. That kind of dominance is what Jakob would have to achieve to be in contention for the GOAT; he would have to dominate his specialist events as Bekele once did. Or El G.
Who has confused this?
As Dumb has realised during this thread there never can be an ultimate answer to such questions. It's highly subjective.
Now he again thinks to have the ultimate truth.
For sure someone can rank a runner who was amongst the best at a variety of distances above someone who dominated a single event without success at other distances.
The only distance runner who really can't be questioned to be number one in his event is El Guerrouj (no one is close) in the 1500m/Mile. So, for Dumb he is te GOAT distance runner. For me Bekele and Gebrselassie are ahead. Others might vote for Kipchoge or maybe even Rudisha? Zatopek? Nurmi? Who ultimately want's to decide who is right and who is wrong? Only someone like Dumbstrong.
As usual, completely unaware you're doing what you accuse me of. You think you can decide for a fact who is the best, by continuing to argue the best generalist is superior to the best specialist. Since the former is not as good as the latter at their event you are of course wrong. But you should be used to that.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
The question and the criteria you use are irrelevant because it doesn't put him any closer to being the greatest runner of all time. There are runners who were better at either distance who come closer to that than he has. The only way he becomes the GOAT is that he shows he is unquestionably better than any other md/distance runner who has ever lived. Wightman and Kerr have already ended that discussion. Jakob may be a great runner but he will never be the greatest who has ever lived - as this thread has shown. There are too many other great runners in history who have accomplished what he hasn't and never will (and don't bore me with irrelevant recitations of his times. You can't compare times in different eras - but only the era the athlete competes in).
A question doesn't put him closer to being GOAT. What an observation - a pure armdumb.
Armdumb questioned those two points:
- Ingebrigtsen is the best 22 years old from 1500m to 5k
- Ingebrigtsen is among the top ten at age 22 in distance running
When pressed to just give some names (which he can't) - he comes up with such an observation.
That's his way of discussing something: before admitting to be wrong he changes the subject. Always.
I said it is an irrelevant question in the context of the subject of whether Jakob will be the GOAT. I should have added it is a stupid question. There is no point in debating it. But as I said, there are runners who have been better than Jakob over either the 1500 or the 5000 - which makes them better than him.