Australia and New Zealand go into COVID lockdown and reinstate restrictions

After about a month and a half of lockdowns with continued exponential case growth (primarily in the 20-29 age group), Australia has finally admitted that their zero COVID policy is no longer tenable:

https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/08/28/australia-is-ending-its-zero-covid-strategy

They held out as long as they could, but they can no longer sustain their policy. Will New Zealand be the next one to fall? They had 566% increase in weekly cases in spite of level 4 lockdowns for two weeks.

joed|rty wrote:

After about a month and a half of lockdowns with continued exponential case growth (primarily in the 20-29 age group), Australia has finally admitted that their zero COVID policy is no longer tenable:

https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/08/28/australia-is-ending-its-zero-covid-strategy

They held out as long as they could, but they can no longer sustain their policy. Will New Zealand be the next one to fall? They had 566% increase in weekly cases in spite of level 4 lockdowns for two weeks.

If the Kiwis and Aussies were truly locking down they wouldn’t be seeing this massive spike in cases-obviously.

They may be mouthing “the correct line” when it comes to Covid lockdowns but in practice their case numbers say otherwise. Same goes for most nations’ people’s.

Armstronglivs wrote:

You won't get an answer wrote:

Don't like draconian lockdown measures? Must be a covid denier!! There is no middle ground!!!!

There generally isn't. The opposition to lockdown measures goes hand in hand with a minimisation of Covid.

You really are dense aren't you. Why do you ignore/not believe that covid spread outdoors is almost non-existent? Even the people in my life that are the absolute most concerned about covid don't worry about staying inside because they know the outdoors is the 'safest' place you can be (and they don't *gasp* wear a mask outside either). Locking down at the level that Australia and NZ are doing, to restrict outdoor activity is not minimizing covid; it's doing absolutely nothing in that regard.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You have no point.

Wait, do you mean exactly like this above comment.

Sincerely though, New Zealand is going to be an interesting situation. The vaccine can help minimize covid but it will not eliminate it-even assuming every single person in New Zealand takes the shot which I don’t know is realistic. The Kiwis have been pursuing this hermit kingdom zero Covid strategy for the past 18 months as a seemingly temporary measure but will this be the new normal for NZ? At least for any foreseeable future.

You are obsessed with NZ. I understand that, since you are a loser in country that is leading the world for losing.

NZ has followed a policy of elimination until it has a fully vaccinated population. That's it. Hard for you to understand, I know. So far it has had 26 Covid deaths - all early last year - and is now setting daily records for vaccinations. When the population is vaccinated the country will open its borders.

But you will still be experiencing mass Covid deaths and widespread resistance to vaccinations.

You wont get an answer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

There generally isn't. The opposition to lockdown measures goes hand in hand with a minimisation of Covid.

You really are dense aren't you. Why do you ignore/not believe that covid spread outdoors is almost non-existent? Even the people in my life that are the absolute most concerned about covid don't worry about staying inside because they know the outdoors is the 'safest' place you can be (and they don't *gasp* wear a mask outside either). Locking down at the level that Australia and NZ are doing, to restrict outdoor activity is not minimizing covid; it's doing absolutely nothing in that regard.

To piggyback on this point.

The curfew they imposed in Australia between the hours of 9pm to 5am might be the most arbitrary rule imposed on a population in this whole covid saga.

If I go for a run or walk at 9:30pm by myself I have effectively a 0% chance of spreading Covid. Just a rule put into place by a bunch of power hungry petty tyrants.

You wont get an answer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

There generally isn't. The opposition to lockdown measures goes hand in hand with a minimisation of Covid.

You really are dense aren't you. Why do you ignore/not believe that covid spread outdoors is almost non-existent? Even the people in my life that are the absolute most concerned about covid don't worry about staying inside because they know the outdoors is the 'safest' place you can be (and they don't *gasp* wear a mask outside either). Locking down at the level that Australia and NZ are doing, to restrict outdoor activity is not minimizing covid; it's doing absolutely nothing in that regard.

The US has had 640k Covid deaths so far; NZ has had 26 - while NZ'rs have lived without significant restrictions until this lockdown. So tell me, how successful have your policies been? And who else is doing so much better than NZ? You are a complete moron.

Even if and when New Zealand is totally vaxxed there will still be breakthrough Covid cases, Covid deaths and spreading of the virus (albeit to a lesser degree). This will be especially true when you open up your society and your borders to its fullest extent.

Do you believe these inevitable “breakthrough” Covid deaths are something Kiwis, your government and you personally would be willing to tolerate?

energeticlotuseater wrote:

joed|rty wrote:

After about a month and a half of lockdowns with continued exponential case growth (primarily in the 20-29 age group), Australia has finally admitted that their zero COVID policy is no longer tenable:

https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/08/28/australia-is-ending-its-zero-covid-strategy

They held out as long as they could, but they can no longer sustain their policy. Will New Zealand be the next one to fall? They had 566% increase in weekly cases in spite of level 4 lockdowns for two weeks.

If the Kiwis and Aussies were truly locking down they wouldn’t be seeing this massive spike in cases-obviously.

They may be mouthing “the correct line” when it comes to Covid lockdowns but in practice their case numbers say otherwise. Same goes for most nations’ people’s.

The lockdown has prevented the spread of the virus across the while country. It is now mainly confined to Auckland. From next week, the rest of the country moves to a lower level of restrictions. Without the lockdown we would have been overwhelmed, as Delta is by far more contagious than previous versions of the virus. Cases have mostly been identified and isolated and our health system preserved. In a few weeks we will be out of this, having eliminated community transmission, and with increasing numbers of our population also being vaccinated.

Your ignorance has no limits. But that is because you have no experience of success in dealing with the virus. Or anything else.

Desperately clutching at straws. NZ will tolerate keeping deaths at the absolute minimum. Unlike yours.

You really need to see a psych.

Proof that the US needs to get out of the ANZUS treaty. It is outrageous that US military personnel are stationed in Australia.

Armstronglivs wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Even if and when New Zealand is totally vaxxed there will still be breakthrough Covid cases, Covid deaths and spreading of the virus (albeit to a lesser degree). This will be especially true when you open up your society and your borders to its fullest extent.

Do you believe these inevitable “breakthrough” Covid deaths are something Kiwis, your government and you personally would be willing to tolerate?

Desperately clutching at straws. NZ will tolerate keeping deaths at the absolute minimum. Unlike yours.

You really need to see a psych.

Great.

So, once every single kiwi is vaccinated do you think you and your fellow compatriots would be willing to tolerate a surge of “breakthrough” Covid cases and deaths to keep your society completely reopened (pre 2019)?

Also

For the few unenlightened Kiwis who refuse to get vaccinated willingly what do you think your government should do? I’d be interested in a New Zealand perspective.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Desperately clutching at straws. NZ will tolerate keeping deaths at the absolute minimum. Unlike yours.

You really need to see a psych.

Great.

So, once every single kiwi is vaccinated do you think you and your fellow compatriots would be willing to tolerate a surge of “breakthrough” Covid cases and deaths to keep your society completely reopened (pre 2019)?

Also

For the few unenlightened Kiwis who refuse to get vaccinated willingly what do you think your government should do? I’d be interested in a New Zealand perspective.

When the population has been vaccinated the number of infections and possible deaths will be far far less than if the country opens up without vaccination. The latter isn't an option.

We also have few "unenlightened" Kiwis who will not choose to be vaccinated - unlike the vast reservoirs of prejudice and ignorance that pervade your country - so state compulsion is not on the cards.

You still really need to see a psych. And get vaccinated.

DanM wrote:

Proof that the US needs to get out of the ANZUS treaty. It is outrageous that US military personnel are stationed in Australia.

I agree. It is outrageous. Americans are super-spreaders.

Armstronglivs wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Great.

So, once every single kiwi is vaccinated do you think you and your fellow compatriots would be willing to tolerate a surge of “breakthrough” Covid cases and deaths to keep your society completely reopened (pre 2019)?

Also

For the few unenlightened Kiwis who refuse to get vaccinated willingly what do you think your government should do? I’d be interested in a New Zealand perspective.

When the population has been vaccinated the number of infections and possible deaths will be far far less than if the country opens up without vaccination. The latter isn't an option.

We also have few "unenlightened" Kiwis who will not choose to be vaccinated - unlike the vast reservoirs of prejudice and ignorance that pervade your country - so state compulsion is not on the cards.

. You still really need to see a psych And get vaccinated.

Fair enough.

So if once a vaccine is readily and widely available in New Zealand to whoever desires to get it (and God knows when this will be at this rate) and if your government is still trying to lockdown society to “stop the spread” I can then expect you to stand up and say “enough” and to come to the anti-lockdown side? As long as we’re on the same page.

Yes, “ You still really need to see a psych”, a very on brand comment from you. So hurtful.

I’ve been vaccinated for about four months my friend. The vaccine has been widely available in the United States since the early summer.

I would be highly skeptical that the restrictions simply go away once NZ vaccinates all those willing.

Also it’s taken New Zealand about 5 months to just vaccinate somewhere around 20% of its population. I don’t expect the vaccine to be readily available to all until next year sometime in NZ.

Armstronglivs wrote:

You wont get an answer wrote:

You really are dense aren't you. Why do you ignore/not believe that covid spread outdoors is almost non-existent? Even the people in my life that are the absolute most concerned about covid don't worry about staying inside because they know the outdoors is the 'safest' place you can be (and they don't *gasp* wear a mask outside either). Locking down at the level that Australia and NZ are doing, to restrict outdoor activity is not minimizing covid; it's doing absolutely nothing in that regard.

The US has had 640k Covid deaths so far; NZ has had 26 - while NZ'rs have lived without significant restrictions until this lockdown. So tell me, how successful have your policies been? And who else is doing so much better than NZ? You are a complete moron.

The policies regarding if and when I can go outside for a run, or take a drive in my car to explore the countryside, or see my family who doesn't live in my household have been peachy. Neither myself nor my family caught covid, we all got vaccinated, and we're doing everything we could do before now.

We're not arguing whether policies that may or may not have lead to excess covid deaths. We're arguing about being OUTSIDE or any length away from your home BY YOURSELF, which NZ and Australia are restricting despite zero evidence that covid spreads in those manners. I mean, common sense man. Are you truly in support of limited outdoor time?

The vaccine is available in NZ now and there are daily records being set for vaccinations. Lockdowns are only a necessity to eliminate community transmission (which will be achieved within a a couple of weeks) until most of the population is vaccinated, which should be within the next two months. The result is we will have herd immunity without mass deaths and over-running our health system - something the US has failed to do.

You are wrong. Delta spreads through aerosol transmission. Infection can occur wherever we encounter people - which includes outdoors. People who are outside at some point will be near others - they don't live in the bush.

We also accept restrictions for a few weeks as a necessary price for saving lives - which only the self-indulgent and narcissistic are opposed to.

Wrong. About everything.