Editor's note on 7/1/2024- This 3-year-old thread is getting a lot of clicks as lots of people are googling Nikki Hiltz after NBC published an article "Transgender runner Nikki Hiltz is headed to the Paris Olympics" on her making the Olympic team. The article did not explain that Hiltz's is a biological female. Hiltz also is also not on testosterone as World Athletics forbids that.
What about when there are multiple people in a race using a wide range of pronouns and it becomes impossible to keep track. It’s a futile and pointless task to cater to abstract pronouns. The more I think about it, it has to be done for attention seeking purposes or mental illness.
I agree with you, but even if you could keep track, it would be wrong to do it. Just because people say they are something doesn't mean they are that thing.
when a woman, let's say Jane Smith, marries a man e.g., named John Doe, she may ask everyone to stop referring to her as Jane Smith and to henceforth refer to her as Jane Doe.
people may still refer to her as Jane Smith, but that may be construed as disrespectful, primarily because that's not how she chooses to identify herself to the world.
why is respecting someone's choice of preferred pronouns so much more difficult?
Here's the difference: Jane Smith isn't merely choosing to identify as "Jane Smith" after her marriage (even though she may indeed personally identify differently). She, in reality, has undergone a change in who she is. She's no longer the unmarried Jane Doe; she's the married Jane Smith. It's disrespectful to call her otherwise not because it refuses to acknowledge her identity but because it refuses to acknowledge reality.
Nikki Hiltz, on the other hand, has been and continues to be a biological woman. It's disrespectful to others to force them to ignore reality call her something other than she is.
Imperfect analogy and the counter-argument is problematic because it only acknowledges identity changes that reinforce the patriarchy. Wouldn’t expect anything less from these boards.
If She wants to be called whatever at home/in private with her friends who agree to that, that is their business, The Public should not go along with that, just like if a 10 year old can say he is a purple heart recipient who fought in World War 1 and his friends and family want to go along with that kids fantasy fine, but the public should not have to report this as fact, when the kid was not even born at that time, it is the kids fantasy and is not based on reality.
As for Nicki Hitz she is a Women and she is competing against other Women, so no one should have a problem with that
but that reality is not a universal rule - some women will marry a man and choose not to take their husband's name. or they will choose to hyphenate their names. or they will choose to invent a completely new one.
it doesn't really matter what they choose - ultimately, we respect their decisions. there was no controversy on this board when ESP first chose to use both her maiden name and her husband's name while competing, before choosing to drop her maiden name entirely.
the agency to decide how others refer to you belongs to the individual. pronouns are just an extension of this. you don't have to do follow this convention - you won't go to jail - but you are being disrespectful if you do so willfully, just as you would if you purposefully addressed ESP as Elle Purrier rather than as Elle St. Pierre, against her wishes.
I can agree with you that people have agency to decide how others can refer to them in many circumstances, but the limiting principle is reality.
To go back to your Jane Doe example: sure, Jane can decide to not take her husbands name, to hyphenate, etc, and people should respect that choice. In none of those circumstances is Jane asking people to ignore reality. But what if Jane hadn't married John but decided to identify as Jane Smith (John's wife) anyways? Would it be respectful for others to call her Jane Smith?
What's at the bottom of these discussions is at what level identity is something someone can choose versus set in stone. And with biological sex, it's as set in stone as it gets.
Another Example, People could identify as the World Record Holder in the 100 and 200 Meters if the person who does this is Usain Bolt hen it is true, if you are not Usain Bolt it is that persons fantasy and the public should not have to acknowledge that fantasy as it is unfair to Usain Bolt who EARNED that Accomplishment.
Another Example, People could identify as the World Record Holder in the 100 and 200 Meters if the person who does this is Usain Bolt hen it is true, if you are not Usain Bolt it is that persons fantasy and the public should not have to acknowledge that fantasy as it is unfair to Usain Bolt who EARNED that Accomplishment.
Biological men and women get told repeatedly that they aren’t real. If they disagree they are called bigots. The only people that are allowed to be real are trans people.
Everyone else has to accept that their identity doesn’t matter.
Nikki is by birth biologically sexed female. Nikki’s self identifies non binary as their gender. I have no problem with this. Nikki is competing in the correct category.
CS is XXY with testosterone levels above the "accepted" values to compete as a women. Hence, she is required to lower testosterone levels in order to compete.
There is no reason to hide the existence of transgender people from children. Trans people have no agenda, except to live their live as their true selves.
There is no reason to hide the existence of transgender people from children. Trans people have no agenda, except to live their live as their true selves.
Excepting the children who've been gaslighted and groomed by their parents and Democrats into being trendy status symbols for their mentally ill families, there are no "trans people" without agendas, by adulthood many have rejected their programming, the rest are trying to lure new recruits into making the same sad state they're in (because sunk costs and misery loves company).
Nikki is a massive narcissist. I can’t phantom making other people change their language to play into some sort of odd self identity fetish. She competes with women because she is a woman and makes the announcers sound like absolute morons. It’s textbook narcissism, but she’s a good runner.