Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

Depends on what you mean by that.

1) I maintain (Fat Hurts disagrees, and I will not rehash this argument) that when you accept a pardon you admit guilt. This was the rationale Ford used to pardon Nixon and sets it up nicely for Pence to do the same for Trump. See Supreme Court case Burdick v. United States where it was said that a pardon "carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it."

2) If the Senate convicts him of any impeachment articles that come from the House, does that make him guilty? I say so. It just doesn't put him in prison. They vote to CONVICT, so that to me says guilty. It's just politically guilty and not legally guilty. The problem again is that Trump can avoid this by resigning.

3) Now, if he avoids jail by plea bargain, he would still be Guilty of those things, and the law will say so...he just will get a sentence that doesn't include jail...could be house arrest, could be probation, etc. So, in that case there is no doubt he is guilty. Ending up in jail isn't the definition of being guilty.

4) Will the Mueller investigation come to the conclusion that Trump didn't commit a crime? No. Is that alone enough to say he is guilty of those things? No.

So, in my opinion, if the Senate convicts him, he is guilty. If he is indicted and either found guilty in a court of law and then pardoned OR Pence pardons him before a trial, I say that both those things show guilt.

The most important thing is to get Trump out of office by any legal means possible and as quickly as possible. I don't need personal retribution against Trump, but as a deterrent to any future bad actors like him who aspire to be the President, I will be most gratified if he is punished heavily; wanting what is best for the country is my only objective. This can include prison, loss of office, loss of his business, fines that ruin him, or any combination.

He will not finish his term.

Mueller is coming.

The clown is done.

Trump polling has dropped noticeably the past couple of weeks, since the McCain situation and anonymous editorial and Woodward book. Today there are 3 new YouGov polls at 37-39% approval, a new Gallop poll at 40%, and this Quinnipiac poll at 38% approval and 54% disapproval.

You can tell how desperate it has become for conservatives when they are using tennis to try to make a non-existent point.

Some highlights from this Quinnipiac poll:

"American voters believe 55 - 28 percent anonymous allegations that senior aides to President Donald Trump work behind his back to keep him from making what the aides believe are bad decisions, according to a Quinnipiac University National Poll released today."

"American voters disapprove 54 - 38 percent of the job President Trump is doing, compared to a 54 - 41 percent disapproval August 14.

The only listed groups approving of the president are Republicans, 84 - 7 percent and white voters with no college degree, 51 - 40 percent."

American voters give President Trump his lowest grade for honesty since he was elected, saying 60 - 32 percent that he is not honest. Trump gets low grades on most character traits:

57 - 38 percent that he does not have good leadership skills;

55 - 41 percent that he does not care about average Americans;

65 - 30 percent that he is not level-headed;

57 - 39 percent that he is a strong person;

51 - 42 percent that he is intelligent;

60 - 33 percent that he does not share voters' values;

55 - 41 percent that he is not fit to serve as president;

48 - 42 percent that he is mentally stable.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2567

It shows how bad things are. Rightly or wrongly (I say wrongly), Presidents are given blame or credit for the CURRENT state of the economy. Right now as a snapshot in time, the economy is firing on all cylinders. Trump's approval rating should be through the roof.

Normally, "it's the economy stupid" is the mantra that carries the day, but we have an Orange President who is so far out of bounds that all norms are thrown out the window.

Burdick doesn't mean what Flaggy thinks it means.

In this country, you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. So that means Flagpole is right about everything else.

The only question might be, "Is a Senate impeachment trial a court of law?" I would maintain that it is. While it is unusual, and highly political, it is part of our law and arguably part of our justice system since it is presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

Speaking of Burdick and related case law, it brings up an interesting reason why Pence might not want to pardon Trump.

If Pence is in legal jeopardy himself then a Trump pardon could work to Pence's disadvantage. The courts have held that someone who has accepted a pardon no longer has a fifth amendment right to avoid self-incrimination. The legal theory goes that someone who has accepted a pardon can't incriminate himself because he can't be convicted.

Therefore, if Pence pardons Trump, the Donald would be forced to testify against Pence and tell everything he knows. He can't plead the fifth.

Fat hurts wrote:

Speaking of Burdick and related case law, it brings up an interesting reason why Pence might not want to pardon Trump.

If Pence is in legal jeopardy himself then a Trump pardon could work to Pence's disadvantage. The courts have held that someone who has accepted a pardon no longer has a fifth amendment right to avoid self-incrimination. The legal theory goes that someone who has accepted a pardon can't incriminate himself because he can't be convicted.

Therefore, if Pence pardons Trump, the Donald would be forced to testify against Pence and tell everything he knows. He can't plead the fifth.

Leaving the Burdick thing out of it (other than to say you are wrong), it will be interesting to see what Pence does and consequently what Trump does based on what Pence does. I'm not 100% sure that Pence doesn't also get impeached and removed, but I have no reason at this point to believe he will.

The hope for many Democrats is that:

1) Democrats take the House so that a Democrat is appointed Speaker of the House.

2) Trump and Pence are both impeached and removed.

3) Democrat Speaker becomes President.

#1 will happen for sure.

I don't think Pence will be impeached and removed, so we will have to wait for next election to have a a shot at a Democrat President.

Approval plunging in all the new polls. CNN now down 6% to 36%, with independents shifting further away.

That is the big change since 2016, although conservatives seem to be in denial. I knew Hillary could never win big in 2016 because independents always displayed strange preference for Trump. However, they wised up and moved away from him during 2017 and have stayed away.

Kind of difficult when your foundation was 46% while winning independents, and now you are losing them. That's why I frequently point out that 46%. It was technically a win, but otherwise ominous everywhere.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/10/politics/cnn-poll-trump-approval-independents/index.html

Nothing better than watching hillary lovers continue to have meltdowns!!!!!

Still think hillary will be made president?

Hahahahaha!!!!

Nothing better wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Leaving the Burdick thing out of it (other than to say you are wrong), it will be interesting to see what Pence does and consequently what Trump does based on what Pence does. I'm not 100% sure that Pence doesn't also get impeached and removed, but I have no reason at this point to believe he will.

The hope for many Democrats is that:

1) Democrats take the House so that a Democrat is appointed Speaker of the House.

2) Trump and Pence are both impeached and removed.

3) Democrat Speaker becomes President.

#1 will happen for sure.

I don't think Pence will be impeached and removed, so we will have to wait for next election to have a a shot at a Democrat President.

Nothing better than watching hillary lovers continue to have meltdowns!!!!!

Still think hillary will be made president?

Hahahahaha!!!!

??? How would Hillary be made president? I have never said that, because I know how things work. What are you even talking about?

Flagpole wrote:

Nothing better wrote:

Nothing better than watching hillary lovers continue to have meltdowns!!!!!

Still think hillary will be made president?

Hahahahaha!!!!

??? How would Hillary be made president? I have never said that, because I know how things work. What are you even talking about?

He's talking about getting you to respond. Because in his mind that is so hilarious.

I can't remember the exact year in school but I think that somewhere around 5th to 8th grade this type of behavior is considered oh so funny.

What percentage of Trump supporters do you think would approve of Muslim detention camps similar to those in authoritarian China if Trump were to propose them in the name of national security? I'd guess 60 percent would consider them "favorable", 30 percent "somewhat favorable", leaving 10 percent "unsure or opposed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/world/asia/us-china-sanctions-muslim-camps.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Flagpole wrote:

Nothing better wrote:

Nothing better than watching hillary lovers continue to have meltdowns!!!!!

Still think hillary will be made president?

Hahahahaha!!!!

??? How would Hillary be made president? I have never said that, because I know how things work. What are you even talking about?

It could happen. The speaker need not be a member of congress. So they would just install Hillary as speaker in step 1.

But if they were going to do something wild like that then a better choice would be Obama. He would be eligible serve out the rest of Trump's term.

This thread has so much crazy talk

crazytown wrote:

This thread has so much crazy talk

Then leave.

Not a good day for flagpole. No wonder this clown got fired.

Thisthreadisridiculous wrote:

www foxnews com / strzok-page-texts-reveal-coordinated-fbi-leak-strategy-to-harm-trump-gop-congressman-claims

Not a good day for flagpole. No wonder this clown got fired.

0/10

Crazy Talk wrote:

crazytown wrote:

This thread has so much crazy talk

Then leave.

You seem like one that need a 2X4 cracked across the forehead. Funny thing is it would make you smarter.

Fat hurts wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

??? How would Hillary be made president? I have never said that, because I know how things work. What are you even talking about?

It could happen. The speaker need not be a member of congress. So they would just install Hillary as speaker in step 1.

But if they were going to do something wild like that then a better choice would be Obama. He would be eligible serve out the rest of Trump's term.

Ok...I don't need things to get that crazy. I also don't think the House would do that.

Thisthreadisridiculous wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/10/strzok-page-texts-reveal-coordinated-fbi-leak-strategy-to-harm-trump-gop-congressman-claims.html

Not a good day for flagpole. No wonder this clown got fired.