This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
“When an experiment is challenged no matter who it is challenged by, it’s your responsibility to check. That is an ironclad rule of science. One of the greatest strengths of American science is that even the most senior professor, if challenged by the lowliest technician or graduate student, is required to treat them seriously and to consider their criticisms.”
Howard Temin, Biologist and Nobel laureate in medicine 1975
Asking for the information in a different format is something new in America… a commonly used tactic for how not to defend your position… to avoid the challenge.
Temin won his Nobel prize 18 years before Kary Mullis win his. Mullis said, “The PCR test doesn’t tell you that you are sick. These test cannot detect free, infectious virus is at all.”
Of course we all know that Mullis won his Nobel prize for the invention of the polymerase chain reaction technique, which is the basis for all of our Covid stats. Kind of makes everything build up from these stats seem kind of flimsy.
PCR tests are extremely sensitive at detecting specific DNA sequences. For coronavirus detection, first you have to reverse transcribe RNA, as CoVs are RNA viruses, then you PCR the resulting DNA. The CoV RNA isn't very stable (RNA in general isn't) so the presence of CoV RNA implies an ongoing or very recent COVID infection.
This is different than retrovirus like HIV that integrates its genome in the human genome and this one could get a PCR positive without and actual functional virus around... however it would imply a latent infection which could become active again.
Finally, antigen tests detect specific proteins on the COVID virus surface, so it's hard to argue that antigen test positives should be excluded from "COVID stats" because you don't understand how PCR tests work!
So, you understand how PCR technology works better than the guy who invented it?
This sounds like a movie script. Here are some key points. Wagh isn't a nutjob. Her lab received a $1.5 million grant from the NIH to isolate Sars-Cov-2. In 1500 samples tested 3x each, she could NOT find it! Six other labs responded to her request to confirm her findings and they found identical results. In a 2.5 hour call with the CDC, these 7 labs were told call it Sars-CoV-2 or we will shut you down. She did not. Her lab was subsequently raided by the FBI. Two of her 20 lab members committed "suicide." This woman should be on 60 Minutes. She should be on every network news. What is going on here?
Can someone give me an alternate explanation for this? Better yet, give me an Occam's Razor explanation of this. What is going on here?!!
Wait a minute. Who is this person? I did a Google and DuckDuckGo search for Poornima Wagh. I couldn't find anything except links to this story. Is this whole thing just made up?
I think you need to refine your internet search skills. Pretty easy to find 15 publications, she’s lead on about half. researchgate
This is brilliant. Some of their analogies are hilarious. Here’s a pile of lego pieces… build me a model of castle that you’ve never seen before… I’ll give you a million dollars if you manage to create anything that remotely looks like a castle.
PCR tests are extremely sensitive at detecting specific DNA sequences. For coronavirus detection, first you have to reverse transcribe RNA, as CoVs are RNA viruses, then you PCR the resulting DNA. The CoV RNA isn't very stable (RNA in general isn't) so the presence of CoV RNA implies an ongoing or very recent COVID infection.
This is different than retrovirus like HIV that integrates its genome in the human genome and this one could get a PCR positive without and actual functional virus around... however it would imply a latent infection which could become active again.
Finally, antigen tests detect specific proteins on the COVID virus surface, so it's hard to argue that antigen test positives should be excluded from "COVID stats" because you don't understand how PCR tests work!
So, you understand how PCR technology works better than the guy who invented it?
They teach PCR to high schoolers these days. You don't grasp the difference between Mullis's anti-HIV-is-the-cause-AIDS ramblings and how RT-PCR is used to detect viral infections these days.
HIV being that cause of AIDS spawned this whole subset of virology skeptics that now refuse to admit that any virus is real.
"Has never been isolated" is a shibboleth for fringe quack science. SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated, replicated, mutated, imaged, etc. in labs across the world.
So, you understand how PCR technology works better than the guy who invented it?
They teach PCR to high schoolers these days. You don't grasp the difference between Mullis's anti-HIV-is-the-cause-AIDS ramblings and how RT-PCR is used to detect viral infections these days.
What is your issue with antigen tests?
You do realize that I am not Kary Mullis? You’re attempting to argue with me as if I made these statements.
HIV being that cause of AIDS spawned this whole subset of virology skeptics that now refuse to admit that any virus is real.
"Has never been isolated" is a shibboleth for fringe quack science. SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated, replicated, mutated, imaged, etc. in labs across the world.
In the 90s all we heard about was how sub Saharan African countries were HIV infested with several countries having infection rates well above 30%. At the time I recall thinking that in 20 or 30 years the populations in these countries would be decimated. The uninflected old would die of old age and the very highly infected middle aged would die of AIDS caused by HIV. With 30% infection rates it would be difficult for couples of two uninfected people to come together. The population of these places should have been absolutely crush. Since these hunter gathers sure can’t afford the Magic Johnson treatment, they should all be dead. Nope. Didn’t happen.
“It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period.”
The video is over an hour long. You both posted a few minutes after my post. No possibility that you watched any part of it.
Amazing. Without even knowing what was said you know it’s wrong. 😂 Intellectuals? Nope, try parrots.
Video is low information density for midwits. Us gorillas use written word to get the same content as a 60 min video in 5 min. Any documents for us?
I agree with both posters. Harambe didn't watch the video. I also agree that videos are low information density. I HATE HATE HATE videos for information. Give me an article with links to sources to verify the point the author is making. I have this video on in the background right now. Why in the background? Because there is nothing to see! It's just two guys on a zoom call or whatever. I'm 12 minutes into it and all I've "learned" is that the virus has supposedly never been isolated. In 12 minutes, I should be able to see the key points of the entire 51 minute presentation!
Now, if Sars-CoV-2 doesn't exist then 1) what is causing MILLIONS of deaths worldwide? 2) What about all these reports about furin cleavage sites, electron microscope photos, etc? Didn't they have to have a sample of the virus to do these studies, photos, etc?
Now let's look at the Wagh video.
I would give the Poornima Wagh's story more credibility if she named her lab, provided a link to a news story of the FBI raiding her lab, newspaper articles on the "suicides" of her fellow lab members, and provided some plausible explanation of her opening remark that monkeypox is an adverse effect of the vaccine. Instead, she just tosses it out. Really? An adverse effect that mostly affects gay men and that doesn't surface until 2 1/2 years after Covid-19 appears?
I'm not saying these people are lying. I'm saying that until I get more data, my trust for them will remain at the used car salesmen level.
Video is low information density for midwits. Us gorillas use written word to get the same content as a 60 min video in 5 min. Any documents for us?
I agree with both posters. Harambe didn't watch the video. I also agree that videos are low information density. I HATE HATE HATE videos for information. Give me an article with links to sources to verify the point the author is making. I have this video on in the background right now. Why in the background? Because there is nothing to see! It's just two guys on a zoom call or whatever. I'm 12 minutes into it and all I've "learned" is that the virus has supposedly never been isolated. In 12 minutes, I should be able to see the key points of the entire 51 minute presentation!
Now, if Sars-CoV-2 doesn't exist then 1) what is causing MILLIONS of deaths worldwide? 2) What about all these reports about furin cleavage sites, electron microscope photos, etc? Didn't they have to have a sample of the virus to do these studies, photos, etc?
Now let's look at the Wagh video.
I would give the Poornima Wagh's story more credibility if she named her lab, provided a link to a news story of the FBI raiding her lab, newspaper articles on the "suicides" of her fellow lab members, and provided some plausible explanation of her opening remark that monkeypox is an adverse effect of the vaccine. Instead, she just tosses it out. Really? An adverse effect that mostly affects gay men and that doesn't surface until 2 1/2 years after Covid-19 appears?
I'm not saying these people are lying. I'm saying that until I get more data, my trust for them will remain at the used car salesmen level.
You accept the claim that Covid killed millions of people?
While data on athlete deaths are disturbing, this article cites a 2006 study of older studies going back to 1960 as the data point of average deaths 1966-2004 to compare to recent deaths 2021-2022. The recent death number was, correct me if I'm wrong, compiled by screening electronic databases for news reports of athlete deaths by an anonymous person initially and then added to by others. To be valid, we would need to see the death rates in 2016-2021 immediately prior to the vaccine rollout to draw a conclusion.
Still, it's alarming and needs to be looked into.
What is disturbing to me is that the CDC and WHO have had months to research athlete deaths in the years immediately preceding the pandemic to see if there has been an increase since the rise of covid and since the advent of athlete vaccinations. To my knowledge, this has not been done or at least it has not be released.
As I pointed out months ago, all it would take is a couple of CDC interns and an IT guy/gal a couple of weeks to gather data to verify or rebut the claim that athlete deaths are increasing due to the vaccine. To me, it speaks volumes that this has not been done. To me, this means one of three below are true.
a) The CDC is incompetent
b) The CDC has done the study and has found a correlation between athlete deaths and the vaccine rollout, but doesn't want to tell us.
Instead of talking about stupid stuff like whether virus exists, we need to accept the fact that virus do exist and cause disease, and turn our attention toward the man who funded the GoF research that resulted in Sars Cov 2 - Tony Fauci "Mr Science"
While data on athlete deaths are disturbing, this article cites a 2006 study of older studies going back to 1960 as the data point of average deaths 1966-2004 to compare to recent deaths 2021-2022. The recent death number was, correct me if I'm wrong, compiled by screening electronic databases for news reports of athlete deaths by an anonymous person initially and then added to by others. To be valid, we would need to see the death rates in 2016-2021 immediately prior to the vaccine rollout to draw a conclusion.
Still, it's alarming and needs to be looked into.
What is disturbing to me is that the CDC and WHO have had months to research athlete deaths in the years immediately preceding the pandemic to see if there has been an increase since the rise of covid and since the advent of athlete vaccinations. To my knowledge, this has not been done or at least it has not be released.
As I pointed out months ago, all it would take is a couple of CDC interns and an IT guy/gal a couple of weeks to gather data to verify or rebut the claim that athlete deaths are increasing due to the vaccine. To me, it speaks volumes that this has not been done. To me, this means one of three below are true.
a) The CDC is incompetent
b) The CDC has done the study and has found a correlation between athlete deaths and the vaccine rollout, but doesn't want to tell us.
c) Both a. and b.
Why would deaths 2016-2021 vary greatly from 1966-2004?
What is disturbing to me is that the CDC and WHO have had months to research athlete deaths in the years immediately preceding the pandemic to see if there has been an increase since the rise of covid and since the advent of athlete vaccinations. To my knowledge, this has not been done or at least it has not be released.
As I pointed out months ago, all it would take is a couple of CDC interns and an IT guy/gal a couple of weeks to gather data to verify or rebut the claim that athlete deaths are increasing due to the vaccine. To me, it speaks volumes that this has not been done. To me, this means one of three below are true.
a) The CDC is incompetent
b) The CDC has done the study and has found a correlation between athlete deaths and the vaccine rollout, but doesn't want to tell us.
c) Both a. and b.
d) There are an infinite number of potential problems that can be imagined. It is up to those raising the question to make a robust case for the alleged problem. If the methodology is poor, as it clearly is in this case, it's not clear why the CDC has a responsibility to follow up.
There was a young doctor called Nayman In her hospital she wanted to stay, man So she took the big shot, As her body started to rot, She said, I should have listened to laymen.
Instead of talking about stupid stuff like whether virus exists, we need to accept the fact that virus do exist and cause disease, and turn our attention toward the man who funded the GoF research that resulted in Sars Cov 2 - Tony Fauci
Congressional Republicans are eagerly floating investigations into Anthony Fauci and the Biden administration’s response to the coronavirus pandemic if they win back control of the …
