Really? Looks like he ran the 3km about a dozen times in his career and tried an all-out assault for 5000m (his PR), which he said was too windy. That's fine, I can use your logic and Aouita was never in good shape racing the 800m and could have run 1:41-low.
Deanuok wrote:
lol, you obviously don't know what you are talking. Coe never was in good shape when racing these times. He could have run 13:10 and 7:40 and sub 13/7:30 when concentrating on the events. And I'm not biased.
lkjk wrote:
Really? Looks like he ran the 3km about a dozen times in his career and tried an all-out assault for 5000m (his PR), which he said was too windy. That's fine, I can use your logic and Aouita was never in good shape racing the 800m and could have run 1:41-low.
Deanuok wrote:
lol, you obviously don't know what you are talking. Coe never was in good shape when racing these times. He could have run 13:10 and 7:40 and sub 13/7:30 when concentrating on the events. And I'm not biased.
Lol, Aouita spent an entire season dedicated primarily to training for the 800m (1988). He was also an 800m runner early in his career.
As a senior, Coe never trained for anything longer than the Mile until the winter of 84/85, when he planned to have a serious stab at moving up to the 5000m. Injury problems and likely the desire to win a major 800m championship (and maybe get his 1500/Mile WRs back from Aouita and Cram) put paid to that.
Thank you. I also agree that Coe could not run a world leading 5000m. There’s more to speed needed to perform at that level and over such a long and illustrious career, Coe was unable to put one together, a single 3000 or 5000 like his peers Ovett Cram Aouita. He just could not do it.
Hendn wrote:
Thank you. I also agree that Coe could not run a world leading 5000m. There’s more to speed needed to perform at that level and over such a long and illustrious career, Coe was unable to put one together, a single 3000 or 5000 like his peers Ovett Cram Aouita. He just could not do it.
I still think it's a bit misleading. Did Coe ever run a 3000 or 5000 as anything other than an early season training exercise or tune up? Ovett, Cram, and Aouita were all serious 5000m runners at some point (yes, even Cram when he set his PB).
Hendn wrote:
Thank you. I also agree that Coe could not run a world leading 5000m. There’s more to speed needed to perform at that level and over such a long and illustrious career, Coe was unable to put one together, a single 3000 or 5000 like his peers Ovett Cram Aouita. He just could not do it.
You can’t run 17:54 for 4 miles and beat Coghlan (World 5000m champion) and Mike McLeod (Olympic 10000m silver medalist), setting a course record and beating Foster’s (ex World record holder over 3000m) time by 11 secs, without being capable of running a world class time (for the period) on the track got 5000m. That was in October 78, after a track season in which he had almost entirely focused on 800m running; having run 1 or 2 races over 1500/1 mile. The men he beat and the owner of the course record he beat, had all run in the 13:20’s that same season. The race in Ireland was another mile longer than the 5000m.
Coe ran only 1 competitive 5000m on the track his entire career, a rust burner in May 1980 when he basically jogged around for 11.5 laps in windy conditions, before easing away on the last lap.
He ran (and won most) a handful of 3000m, mainly indoor in Feb/ March, as an indicator of how the winter training had gone. In nine did he set out to run a pb or specific time. His pb of 7:54 was run on a 200m wooden track, renowned for being slow and hard on the feet. Nothing about it was conducive to a fast time.
I’ve never claimed that Coe was capable of running as fast as Aouita over 3 or 5k, but to claim his pbs represent the extent of his ability over those distances is ludicrous.
lkjk wrote:
Really? Looks like he ran the 3km about a dozen times in his career and tried an all-out assault for 5000m (his PR), which he said was too windy. That's fine, I can use your logic and Aouita was never in good shape racing the 800m and could have run 1:41-low.
Deanuok wrote:
lol, you obviously don't know what you are talking. Coe never was in good shape when racing these times. He could have run 13:10 and 7:40 and sub 13/7:30 when concentrating on the events. And I'm not biased.
Dismissing Coe's ability to be a good 5000m runner is rather naive.
The only great 5000m runner during the 1980's was Aouita.
If Coe focused on the 5000m, he could have ran 13:10 and be a consistent major championship due to his speed and tactical awareness.
Deanuok wrote:
kjlk wrote:
I think people forget that Coe had the endurance of a college boy, with a 14:02 personal best over 5000m and about a 7:54 for 3000m.
lol, you obviously don't know what you are talking. Coe never was in good shape when racing these times. He could have run 13:10 and 7:40 and sub 13/7:30 when concentrating on the events. And I'm not biased.
This isn't me, if anyone hasn't checked the spelling.
Alekhine wrote:
lkjk wrote:
Really? Looks like he ran the 3km about a dozen times in his career and tried an all-out assault for 5000m (his PR), which he said was too windy. That's fine, I can use your logic and Aouita was never in good shape racing the 800m and could have run 1:41-low.
Dismissing Coe's ability to be a good 5000m runner is rather naive.
The only great 5000m runner during the 1980's was Aouita.
If Coe focused on the 5000m, he could have ran 13:10 and be a consistent major championship due to his speed and tactical awareness.
Perhaps you're forgetting about Rono and Moorcroft.
euwe wrote:
Alekhine wrote:
Dismissing Coe's ability to be a good 5000m runner is rather naive.
The only great 5000m runner during the 1980's was Aouita.
If Coe focused on the 5000m, he could have ran 13:10 and be a consistent major championship due to his speed and tactical awareness.
Perhaps you're forgetting about Rono and Moorcroft.
Moorcroft never really performed well in major championships.
He may have been injured but lacked major wins.
Alekhine wrote:
euwe wrote:
Perhaps you're forgetting about Rono and Moorcroft.
Moorcroft never really performed well in major championships.
He may have been injured but lacked major wins.
You forgot Miruts Yifter, one of the greatest 5000m runners of all time. 1980 olympic 5000m and 10000m gold medalist.
How old do you reckon Yifter was in Moscow? 37, no way, just saying I presently know a lot about that age and he was way older looking than that. Some say 44, pretty fast for in your 40s.
Subway Surfers wrote:
How old do you reckon Yifter was in Moscow? 37, no way, just saying I presently know a lot about that age and he was way older looking than that. Some say 44, pretty fast for in your 40s.
Yifter the shifter didn't know how old he was. My guess was he was in his late 40s early 50s in 1980.
Alekhine wrote:
lkjk wrote:
Really? Looks like he ran the 3km about a dozen times in his career and tried an all-out assault for 5000m (his PR), which he said was too windy. That's fine, I can use your logic and Aouita was never in good shape racing the 800m and could have run 1:41-low.
Dismissing Coe's ability to be a good 5000m runner is rather naive.
The only great 5000m runner during the 1980's was Aouita.
If Coe focused on the 5000m, he could have ran 13:10 and be a consistent major championship due to his speed and tactical awareness.
If Coe thought he were a potential 13:10 5K man, he would have moved up to 5000m prior to 1988 Olympics. Anyone who has trained for events 800m to 5000m will tell you training for 5000m is easier. Far more ten mile runs over rolling terrain as opposed to am track workout followed by pm track workout for 800m men and women. Athletes do not turn age thirty and move down in distance from 5000m to 800m. Coe was an 800/1500 man. There is no evidence Coe had world class potential as a 5000m man.
Okay...let me bring something up here: This Coe vs Aouita thing is interesting but I have a question that deserves logical thinking and not emotional bias. Back in this era - is this a clean or doped Aouita vs a clean or doped Coe?
I know some of you with emotional ties to the British runners of that era will adamantly state that Coe was clean and Aouita was doped (I get it and you guys stand your ground at all costs). There may a very small minority on the Moroccan side who say Coe was doped & Aouita clean, and some in the middle that will say both used PEDs.
I don't have a dog in the fight so I don't care one way or another. I'm looking at it more from a research perspective analyzing elite performances of that time period. But it would be interesting to know the truth from unbiased sources. One thought here: If Aouita was doped and Coe was clean, is this more of a discussion that a clean Coe was faster than a doped Aouita in the 800, and would have been faster than Aouita in the other common distances...if Aouita was clean?
Subway Surfers wrote:
How old do you reckon Yifter was in Moscow? 37, no way, just saying I presently know a lot about that age and he was way older looking than that. Some say 44, pretty fast for in your 40s.
He was an Ethiopian competing in the Soviet Union when Ethiopia was under a communist dictatorship.
'Doped to the gills' probably only scratches the surface.
Sad thing is Rono would likely still have beaten him with a couple of vodkas before and after the race.
You're wrong about Coe wrote:
Alekhine wrote:
Dismissing Coe's ability to be a good 5000m runner is rather naive.
The only great 5000m runner during the 1980's was Aouita.
If Coe focused on the 5000m, he could have ran 13:10 and be a consistent major championship due to his speed and tactical awareness.
If Coe thought he were a potential 13:10 5K man, he would have moved up to 5000m prior to 1988 Olympics. Anyone who has trained for events 800m to 5000m will tell you training for 5000m is easier. Far more ten mile runs over rolling terrain as opposed to am track workout followed by pm track workout for 800m men and women. Athletes do not turn age thirty and move down in distance from 5000m to 800m. Coe was an 800/1500 man. There is no evidence Coe had world class potential as a 5000m man.
Both he and his father must have thought he was better than 13:10 or else they wouldn't have both seriously intended Coe to move up permanently after LA. I doubt if Coe was expecting to be in the scrap for minor medals behind Aouita and Moorcroft. As explained previously, injury problems and likely seeing Cram and Aouita take over the 1500 (including setting new WRs) probably led him to change his mind.
Having said that, it doesn't seem a big deal to me what Coe could have done at 5000m. The guy ran 1:41.7 for 800m and would probably have broken 1:41 and still been the WR holder if he hadn't been cut down in his prime.
Coevett wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
How old do you reckon Yifter was in Moscow? 37, no way, just saying I presently know a lot about that age and he was way older looking than that. Some say 44, pretty fast for in your 40s.
He was an Ethiopian competing in the Soviet Union when Ethiopia was under a communist dictatorship.
'Doped to the gills' probably only scratches the surface.
Sad thing is Rono would likely still have beaten him with a couple of vodkas before and after the race.
Ha yes, check out the balding and the sudden development of an unbelievable kick in his late 30s or 40s. There was a thread of the 1977 Zurich 5000m and Liquori and Quax easily out sprinted him, suddenly things changed.?
Sand Dunes wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
How old do you reckon Yifter was in Moscow? 37, no way, just saying I presently know a lot about that age and he was way older looking than that. Some say 44, pretty fast for in your 40s.
Yifter the shifter didn't know how old he was. My guess was he was in his late 40s early 50s in 1980.
Lol ? now I really am pathetically slow.
Move up to 5000m? No! Both Peter Coe and S. Coe knew S. Coe would've been lapped in 5000m.
You're wrong about Coe wrote:
Move up to 5000m? No! Both Peter Coe and S. Coe knew S. Coe would've been lapped in 5000m.
Yes, just like he was in an indoor 3000m.