RE Semenya: Is LetsRun.com "continuing a dated, bigoted conversation about gender in sports."

rojo · 2016-07-19T13:23:27-04:00

Today I received an email from a female journalist whom I had a long conversation with a few weeks ago about the Caster Semenya situation. Her email was one sentence long and was as follows; "We're publishing an essay calling you out for continuing a dated, bigoted conversation about gender in sports. Any comment?" During our talk on the phone, when I told her I very much believed Semenya should not be allowed to compete in the women's category without hormonal treatment, she got very upset. She said she didn't think I understood the ramifications of my bigoted views. She said people would die because of them. I told her I didn't understand how my views on Semenya competing in the Olympics had anything to do with the deaths of transgender/intesex people in a third world country and she replied that my bigoted views would result in transgender people being murdered in Texas. I was at a loss for words. Even though this made no sense to me, I offered her a chance to present her viewpoints in an article or podcast on our website (she doesn't like me quoting Ross Tucker as he agrees with me and wants other science viewpoints presented- a name that came up was Sari Van Andrews) but she declined as she wrote, "My sense is that you don't really want to understand the issue at stake. I'm afraid I can't be of further assistance." So that's the backstory. Below, is the reply I sent her to today's email. [quote][b]Rojo wrote:[/b] Yes. I care to comment. 1) Who is "We"? 2) Can I see what is being written about me so I can respond more accurately. It's hard to respond generically but I'll do my best in #3. 3) If believing that humans (whether intersex or transgender) that respond to testosterone shouldn't be allowed to compete in Olympic women's track and field with elevated testosterone levels is considered bigoted, then I'm proud to be considered a bigot. Such bigoted views are necessary to protect the future viability of women's sports. The fact that Caitlyn Jenner was recently on the cover of Sports Illustrated shows that society has come a long way in support of transgender rights. People no longer have to accept the gender of their birth. If gender is now self-defined, as I take it you would argue it is, then it's foolish to say there shouldn't be a testosterone cap of some sort for women's athletics. One can only speculate as to how many women's gold medals an untreated Caitlyn Jenner would have won in 1976. There is no human right to compete in Olympic track and field. If you want to compete at that level, everyone agrees to give up some rights and agree to certain rules - you have to agree to make your whereabouts known 24/7, you have to agree to blood and urine testing, you have to agree that only three people per country can compete in a certain event, etc. Requiring someone like Caster Semenya, who is XY, to reduce her testosterone so she can compete in the protected women's category isn't an inhumane burden. She can politely decline to do so and compete on an amateur level like most athletes across the globe or she could try to compete professionally in the men's category (which maybe should be redefined as the "open" category). Her human right to be an athlete isn't being denied - just her access to the protected category of professional women's athlete. -Rojo PS. Based on our phone conversation, you seem to think everyone has a human right to be in the Olympics. I disagree. 8 of the 9 fastest men in the world right now in the men's steeplechase are Kenyan. Only 3 of them will be in Rio. Are their human rights being violated by a "dated and bigoted" policy? Similarly, the top 7 fastest women in the world in the women's 100 hurdles are all American - yet only three of them will be in Rio. [/quote] I don't know how I'm being bigoted on this. I simply have a view point on thist hat she disagrees with. In my mind, I'm tyring to save women's sports. Knowing that LetsRun.com is an influential voice,. I offered her a chance to present her side of the story. She declined. Can someone explain to me what I'm missing?

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9 years ago 07/21/2016 3:39pm EDT

re: Jzargo

Jzargo wrote:
Rojo, did she ever get back to you with a coherent counter argument, or was it pretty much limited to name calling?

1) Let me start by saying that it's come to my attention that a number of you have been speculating as to the journalist in question. Please stop. None of you have guessed the correct person. I've removed some of the guesses due to complaints.

2) I heard from the editor this morning and she let it be known that they have killed the story. It appears that they didn't feel the author was giving us a fair shake.

I had reached out to the editor via email to let her know that I vehemently denied the accusation that I was leading a "bigoted" conversation regarding Caster Semenya that is full of "fearmongering". I explained to the editor that the author had said I was the one responsible for deaths and was the one fearmongering. I also told the editor the author had declined to a Q&A or podcast being done that would feature one of her hand-selected scientists whom she viewed to have the right answer as compared to Ross Tucker and Joanna Harper. I told the editor this and also volunteered to write a rebuttal article that they could have free of charge.

The editor was unaware of the freelancers past extensive interactions with letsrun.com and thus killed the story which was going to focus on or portrayal of Semenya. In my mind, it's clear the editor realized the author had an agenda to grind and wasn't out for the truth.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 3:40pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
I had reached out to the editor via email to let her know that I vehemently denied the accusation that I was leading a "bigoted" conversation regarding Caster Semenya that is full of "fearmongering" .

You either haven't read this thread or you are in denial...

9 years ago 07/21/2016 3:46pm EDT

re: rojo

My handle says is all.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 3:48pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
2) I heard from the editor this morning and she let it be known that they have killed the story. It appears that they didn't feel the author was giving us a fair shake.

Damn. You spoiled our fun. Next time, please hold back until the article is published. We don't troll for free.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 3:57pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
Jzargo wrote:
Rojo, did she ever get back to you with a coherent counter argument, or was it pretty much limited to name calling?
1) Let me start by saying that it's come to my attention that a number of you have been speculating as to the journalist in question. Please stop. None of you have guessed the correct person. I've removed some of the guesses due to complaints.
2) I heard from the editor this morning and she let it be known that they have killed the story. It appears that they didn't feel the author was giving us a fair shake.
I had reached out to the editor via email to let her know that I vehemently denied the accusation that I was leading a "bigoted" conversation regarding Caster Semenya that is full of "fearmongering". I explained to the editor that the author had said I was the one responsible for deaths and was the one fearmongering. I also told the editor the author had declined to a Q&A or podcast being done that would feature one of her hand-selected scientists whom she viewed to have the right answer as compared to Ross Tucker and Joanna Harper. I told the editor this and also volunteered to write a rebuttal article that they could have free of charge.
The editor was unaware of the freelancers past extensive interactions with letsrun.com and thus killed the story which was going to focus on or portrayal of Semenya. In my mind, it's clear the editor realized the author had an agenda to grind and wasn't out for the truth.

Good job.

Now the story is killed, can you give us her name? Puuulease?

I also wonder what these "past extensive interactions with letsrun.com" are?

9 years ago 07/21/2016 4:00pm EDT

re: it was Heather

BBC Radio 5 Live Radcliffe talking about Semenya

"Radcliffe: Caster Semenya Rio gold 'won't be sport'

Marathon world record holder Paula Radcliffe fears Caster Semenya will dominate the women's 800m field in Rio to the extent "it will no longer be sport". "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0425m52

This is a clip from a 90 minute show on the subject where among others Ross Tucker was speaking.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 4:28pm EDT

re: 3krunner

3krunner wrote:
rojo wrote:
1) Let me start by saying that it's come to my attention that a number of you have been speculating as to the journalist in question. Please stop. None of you have guessed the correct person. I've removed some of the guesses due to complaints.
2) I heard from the editor this morning and she let it be known that they have killed the story. It appears that they didn't feel the author was giving us a fair shake.
I had reached out to the editor via email to let her know that I vehemently denied the accusation that I was leading a "bigoted" conversation regarding Caster Semenya that is full of "fearmongering". I explained to the editor that the author had said I was the one responsible for deaths and was the one fearmongering. I also told the editor the author had declined to a Q&A or podcast being done that would feature one of her hand-selected scientists whom she viewed to have the right answer as compared to Ross Tucker and Joanna Harper. I told the editor this and also volunteered to write a rebuttal article that they could have free of charge.
The editor was unaware of the freelancers past extensive interactions with letsrun.com and thus killed the story which was going to focus on or portrayal of Semenya. In my mind, it's clear the editor realized the author had an agenda to grind and wasn't out for the truth.
Good job.
Now the story is killed, can you give us her name? Puuulease?
I also wonder what these "past extensive interactions with letsrun.com" are?

Rojo, you cunning old dog, you're driving us trolls and sleuths mad and ensuring this thread will at least double in size with all the speculation.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 4:57pm EDT

re: ExpertKipWatcher

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:
BBC Radio 5 Live Radcliffe talking about Semenya
"Radcliffe: Caster Semenya Rio gold 'won't be sport'
Marathon world record holder Paula Radcliffe fears Caster Semenya will dominate the women's 800m field in Rio to the extent "it will no longer be sport". "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0425m52
This is a clip from a 90 minute show on the subject where among others Ross Tucker was speaking.

I made exactly the point Ms. Radcliffe makes at the end of her statement here a few days ago. In the end, we have to acknowledge that the most important and basic human rights do not include the right to compete as a woman, or for that matter as a man, in the Olympic games. The relevant governing bodies need to set a clearly-defined, easily enforceable standard that is as fair as possible to as many as possible, and unfair to as few as possible, for the good of the sport. If they do a poor job, the sport will suffer. But with genocide, murder, rape, torture and kidnapping becoming alarmingly routine in many parts of the world, and women in particular increasingly oppressed in many societies, let's not pretend this is some major human rights issue.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 5:02pm EDT

re: Rojo, you cunning old dog

Rojo, you cunning old dog wrote:
Rojo, you cunning old dog, you're driving us trolls and sleuths mad and ensuring this thread will at least double in size with all the speculation.

Duh. Everybody knows it was xenonscreams.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 5:04pm EDT

re: Mr. Obvious

rojo wrote:
I had reached out to the editor via email to let her know that I vehemently denied the accusation that I was leading a "bigoted" conversation regarding Caster Semenya that is full of "fearmongering" .

You either haven't read this thread or you are in denial...[/quote]

[quote]Mr. Obvious wrote:

All the fear mongering has come from those who want to have men run in women's events.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 5:27pm EDT

re: You're mistaken

Editor sends journalist trolling rojo home #DEVASTATED

9 years ago 07/21/2016 7:37pm EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
1) Let me start by saying that it's come to my attention that a number of you have been speculating as to the journalist in question. Please stop. None of you have guessed the correct person.

Come on Rojo, that's the oldest trick in the book.

9 years ago 07/21/2016 7:44pm EDT

re: Tricky Dicky

Tricky Dicky wrote:
rojo wrote:
1) Let me start by saying that it's come to my attention that a number of you have been speculating as to the journalist in question. Please stop. None of you have guessed the correct person.
Come on Rojo, that's the oldest trick in the book.

9 years ago 07/22/2016 10:36am EDT

re: Good point haha

It's good to stop the outing of the journalists, because it appears that posters were taking to harassing people who weren't even the author of the article that will never be published. That said, I'm disappointed that the thread with the link to the academic article that had nearly 50 citations to Letsrun appears to have been sliced. I can see that, considering the mentality of some of the posers here, but it was a fascinating thread.

9 years ago 07/22/2016 11:11am EDT

re: Shazzbat beauregard

Shazzbat beauregard wrote:
It's good to stop the outing of the journalists, because it appears that posters were taking to harassing people who weren't even the author of the article that will never be published. That said, I'm disappointed that the thread with the link to the academic article that had nearly 50 citations to Letsrun appears to have been sliced. I can see that, considering the mentality of some of the posers here, but it was a fascinating thread.

Nobody was harassed.

But restore that thread please . I was so honored to read my quote in a journal.

9 years ago 07/22/2016 11:11am EDT

re: Shazzbat beauregard

Shazzbat beauregard wrote:
It's good to stop the outing of the journalists, because it appears that posters were taking to harassing people who weren't even the author of the article that will never be published. That said, I'm disappointed that the thread with the link to the academic article that had nearly 50 citations to Letsrun appears to have been sliced. I can see that, considering the mentality of some of the posers here, but it was a fascinating thread.

Nobody was harassed.

But restore that thread please . I was so honored to read my quote in a journal.

9 years ago 07/22/2016 11:18am EDT

re: Spko

Spko wrote:
Shazzbat beauregard wrote:
It's good to stop the outing of the journalists, because it appears that posters were taking to harassing people who weren't even the author of the article that will never be published. That said, I'm disappointed that the thread with the link to the academic article that had nearly 50 citations to Letsrun appears to have been sliced. I can see that, considering the mentality of some of the posers here, but it was a fascinating thread.
Nobody was harassed.
But restore that thread please . I was so honored to read my quote in a journal.

*WE* were harassed by that Heather woman!!

9 years ago 08/19/2016 6:24pm EDT

re: rojo

I really can't believe how insensitive people are.

Sick of seeing people humiliate these 3 talented runners.

Hope Caster puts the smack down on this whiny group of runners. I think a WR would be great to see.

Caster, it's not your fault you have a gift, use it to your best. You are person beautiful in your own way.

People, grow up and accept our differences, don't hate.

9 years ago 08/19/2016 6:32pm EDT

re: Justice4caster

Justice4caster wrote:
Sick of seeing people humiliate these 3 talented runners.

Please go and throw up on those 3 men immediately!

9 years ago 08/19/2016 6:59pm EDT

re: rojo

"What are you missing?"

Facts and logic are not going to work against the emotional politically correct types. And this goes way beyond Track and Field.

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