Best All-Time HS All-Star XC Team by State

Hulst and Kimball should be in front of Nelson.

cgray wrote:

Kansas

1. Jim Ryun

2. Brent Steiner (8:47.0 for 2 mi)

3. Steve Fein

4. Billy Mills

5. Lane Boyer

6. Kevin Newkirk

7. Chris Williams

I would replace #6 Kevin Newkirk, a 2 time state champion with another 2 time state champion, Ryan Eichner, 1970 and 1971. Based on beating a tougher field and he ran 9:08ish as junior in HS. Would have battled Randy Smith sub-9 their senior year had not the high school plan, Fiddler on Roof, dancing Russian style not taking his knee out for spring track.

Got it thanks. Fixed

blort wrote:

"California

1. Jeff Nelson (8:36.3 for 2 mi;14:32 for Mt. SAC @ 2.93 mi; 14:15 for 5k)

2. Eric Hulst (8:44.9 for 2 mi; 9:52.7 for Mt. SAC @ 2.06 mi; 4x state 2mi champ; 3x 1mi state champ)

3. Thom Hunt (8:45.2 for 2 mi; 9:45 for Mt. SAC @ 2.06mi)

4. German Fernandez (8:34.4 for 2 mi)

5. Terry Williams (9:48 for Mt. SAC @ 2.06 mi)

6. Ralph Serna (8:45.9 for 2 mi)

7. Rich Kimball (8:51.0 for 2 mi; 14:26.8 for 5k)"

Corrections:

Kimball ran 8:46 for 2-mile.

Hulst was not a 4x 2-mile champ. I believe he won twice. He never won the mile.

I'd add German's 14:28 at Cal State meet to his achievements. Still a good 10 seconds faster than anyone else.

Serna and Kimball are better than Williams.

Eric Reynolds deserves consideration and does Ryan Hall over Williams.

Thank you for the feedback. I had to go back and reread the Eric Hulst bio pages here:

and

I will update his stats.

Since this is the best XC team by state, and since there has been a national championship tournament held since the early 80s, performance at that level should carry a lot of weight.

So, Michigan has probably performed stronger than any other state per capita with 7 championships and a strong runner-up performance:

1. Dathan Ritzenhein- 2X FLCC Champion, winning in 14:29 as a junior over a loaded field, and then 14:35 winning by 20 seconds over an arch rival and legend (Webb)...both in Orlando...14:35 at Kenosha FLMW course bested his own 14:55 record from his junior year...14:10 on MI state meet course is probably fastest cross country performance ever by a high schooler...the following year's FLCC Champ was :56 seconds back...second best time all time is Jason Hartmann at 14:51...also finished 3rd at World Cross Juniors, which hasn't even been approached by an American again, and frankly never will as long as Kenyans and Ethiopians reign.

2. Grant Fisher- 2X FLCC Champion, winning in more moderate times with completely different style and much more leg speed than Ritz...both at Balboa...best time of 14:43 at Portage Invite, which is 1 second slower than Ritz' best from his senior year...played competitive soccer (made Olympic Development team) through his entire junior year.

3. Todd Williams- 2nd place at FLCC to Marc Davis, running 14:49 at Balboa...consistent 15:00 runner and 9:00 two miler...not a lot of leg speed, but aerobic animal...Olympian at 10000m...finished 9th at World Cross when they only had one long, grueling race.

4. Brian Grosso- FLCC Champion, winning by 7 seconds in 15:03 at Balboa...ran 8:56-:58 for 3200m I believe.

5. Tim Moore- FLCC Champion, winning in a kick over Bobby Lockhart in 14:50 in Orlando...I believe that was the only sub 15:00 for him...ran around 8:58 for 2 miles.

6. Abdul Alzindani- FLCC Champion, winning by 12 seconds in 15:12 at Balboa after coming up along side Sharif Karie in the homestretch, who ended up falling...I don't believe he ever broke 15:00...may have threatened 9:00 for 3200m.

Should have said "...Fisher's 14:43 was 1 second slower than Ritz's best AT PORTAGE...'

King Vitamin wrote:

I'm revising my list based on my attention being called to Footlocker results. Man, Michigan competed well at the national stage in HS... 4 champs in our Top 5:

1. Dathan Ritzenhein (2 time state champ big school division, XC PR on Michigan course of 14:10, 2x Footlocker champ, head and shoulders above anyone else on this list)

2. Grant Fisher (2 time state champ big school division, 2 time Footlocker champ, Michigan XC PR 14:52)

3. Jason Hartmann (2 time state champ big school division, Footlocker 4th place, PR 14:51)

4. Tim Moore (1 time state champ, 15:06 PR, Footlocker champ)

5. Brian Grosso (1 time state champ, 15:03 PR, Footlocker champ)

6. Maverick Darling (3 time state champ smallish school division, 10th at Footlocker, but big PR 14:53)

7. Mark Smith (3 time state champ medium school division, PR 15:25, ran in late 70s before big national meets were super popular and the state champs were at the fast speedway, in the 1980s and local legend)

I've been told on more than one occasion that Grosso went the wrong way at the state meet as a senior (in 88), or he would have obviously had 2 state titles (since he won Foot Locker as a senior).

The Big Hand wrote:

Since this is the best XC team by state, and since there has been a national championship tournament held since the early 80s, performance at that level should carry a lot of weight.

So, Michigan has probably performed stronger than any other state per capita with 7 championships and a strong runner-up performance:

.

The advent of Kinney/Footlocker and now NXN certainly is a big deal for runners from the 80s and beyond, but that does not take away from those who came before and competed in the AAU Nationals meets and World Jr. XC Championships.

Jordan People's deserves consideration.

All due respect to Dage, great mid-d runner but not in the same class as those other guys in xc. If this were xc and track combined Dage and Pitmon would make the list, I think there was also a pretty good guy from Rutland back in the day who's name escapes me now. My knowledge really only goes back to 2004. If it were me I'd go:

1. Henk

2. Bunnell

3. Powers

4. Peoples

5. Brandmeyer

6. Ramsey

7. Grosvenor

Alternate: Copley

Girls squad looks good to me. That's an amazing team for such a small state.

My apologies if someone already added Washington - a State with a great X-Country running tradition. I would our team up against anyone with each athlete at their Peak - especially our women.

Men:

Gerry Lindgren - Rogers

Matt Davis - Mead

Rick Riley - Ferris

Randy James - Ferris

Chris Lewis - Mead

Carl VanCalcar - Edmonds

Curt Corvin - Lakes

Also: Tanner Anderson - North Central, Roscoe Divine - Columbia River, David Gurry - Blanchet.

Women:

Alexa Efraimson - Camas

Amy Eloise Neal - Glacier Peak

Katie Knight - North Central

Patty Matava - Bellevue

Jordan McPhee - Mt. Rainier

Sarah Schwald - Mead / Rogers

Brie Felnagle - Bellarmine

Also: Megan O'Reilly - Mt. Spokane, Carissa Seward - Goldendale, Lindsay Bradley - Richland.

blort wrote:

"California

Serna and Kimball are better than Williams.

.

No they werent. They ran faster track times but we're not better cross country runners. Williams lead what is arguably the best high school team in history. Would be a four time xc all american in college.

The Big Hand wrote:

I've been told on more than one occasion that Grosso went the wrong way at the state meet as a senior (in 88), or he would have obviously had 2 state titles (since he won Foot Locker as a senior).

This is true. I placed 2nd that year that he went the wrong way. He may have been a huge weirdo, but that kid had more talent than anybody in Michigan history besides Ritz.

He still placed 5th in 16:52. He had a brother 2 yrs later that placed 9th and 6th his last 2 yrs.

Have offered several logical fix its from different states but those have been ignored.

So nice attempt pre841, keep trying, but I'm not going to contribute to nor view this thread anymore.

Throwing it in wrote:

Have offered several logical fix its from different states but those have been ignored.

So nice attempt pre841, keep trying, but I'm not going to contribute to nor view this thread anymore.

Sorry that you're leaving. This has been a fairly good exchange of views and history. Just out of curiosity would you mind telling me what name(s) you've posted under so I can check my work.

Greedy Capitalist wrote:

Man, I am struggling to come up with a good list for North Carolina....

Bobby Mack

Jake Hurysz

Ryan Hill

Jack Bolas

Taylor Gilland

I guess I could list some young guys that did well in high school but are either still in college or didn't do well in college. i.e. Thomas Graham. I dunno.

Bradsher Wilkins '97,'98 FL South Champion and Sandy Roberts before mono cut short his senior year could be in the talk

different perspective wrote:

You'll have to excuse stlrunner, he's obviously only aware of MO girls running from about the last 6-8 years. Megan Thompson and Amy Wiseman definitely belong on this list before Heather Burroughs or several of those mentioned by him.

Wiseman definitely entered my mind. She also ran something like 10:30 (?) on the track as well.

California would definitely win this mythical race, followed by Illinois and Oregon.

Bobby Thomas won world Jr. cross-country but probably wouldn't crack the top 15 in California's depth chart.

buddy wrote:

California would definitely win this mythical race, followed by Illinois and Oregon.

Bobby Thomas won world Jr. cross-country but probably wouldn't crack the top 15 in California's depth chart.

So after thinking about this for the past 19 pages, I would propose that we try reach some consensus on the top 10, and then #11-20, and then # 21-30. I realize that this might be an exercise in futility, but I have enjoyed learning so much about other states' high school harriers.

Judging this might be difficult, but I would propose considering:

1. Their high school XC career (key invitationals and times; state finishes; Kinney/Footlocker and NXN finishes as well as AAU Nationals and Jr. World finishes) and PRs.

2. Their head-to-head performances

3. Their high school track times

4. Their lifetime running pedigree

Here is my top 10

1. Gerry Lindgren (WA)

2. Steve Prefontaine (OR)

3. Craig Virgin (IL)

4. Drew Hunter (VA)

5. Jeff Nelson (CA)

6. Galen Rupp (OR)

7. Eric Hulst (CA)

8. Dathan Ritzenhein (MI)

9. Edward Cheserek (NJ)

10. Adam Goucher (CO)

Agreements/Disagreements/Replacements?

Pre never ran against much competition. I don't see him in the top five. This would seem to be a Lindgren/Ritzenhein/Virgin type of race, with Nelson trailing not far behind. Withrow beat Rupp at Nationals so Rupp is highly over-rated. Withrow barely makes Illinois top five.

My guess is Lindgren/Ritzenhein/Virgin would hammer each other into the ground by 2.5M and someone like Thom Hunt would pull out the win. Probably five Californians (Kimball, Hulst, Hunt, Fernandez, Nelson) in the top ten. Chapa and Lukas V were never really challenged in high school cc and they would probably finish in the top ten.

[quote]Pre841 wrote:

[quote]The Big Hand wrote:

Since this is the best XC team by state, and since there has been a national championship tournament held since the early 80s, performance at that level should carry a lot of weight.

I'm not to familiar with Arizona HS runners, but one guys that should be on Arizona's all time list is 2004 Footlocker champ:'

Ken Cormier the Marine.