Who are some names of least known great distance runners?

Beats me. But that would be a very interesting factoid to confirm. There was some precedent back then for Brits coming over here and running marathons. Chris Stewart ran 2:13:21 at the NYC marathon in 1976, finishing third behind Rodgers and Shorter.

He ran in the AAU three-mile championship at least once, and it was pretty unusual to see a foreigner run in the national championship meet (unless they were in college). You'd almost think Stewart was American rather than British. His 5k PR was around 13:35.

I doubt that Ricky Wilde would have been interested in running a marathon, even in Britain. He struck me as more of a middle distance guy who didn't do much mileage, whereas Chris Stewart was an all arounder.

Living in the Past: RICKY WILDE ran Grandma's in the late seventies. I believe he won Grandma's in about 2:15 (?). I think Garry Bjorklund ran against him a few times in Minnesota. I don't recall the reason that he was living in the Midwest. He didn't win the first Grandma's, may have been Bjorklund in low 2:20s. The first year of Grandma's,1977, the sponsors (Grandma's Saloon and Deli) wanted a NOON start for obvious reasons!! This was in June, and a few hundred runners staggered in, cursing at the race officials for having to run in oppressive heat. The rest, as they say, is history; it started early in the morning the next year!! Scott Keenan, Grandma's only race director, would have the facts.

Steve Hoag wrote:

Living in the Past: RICKY WILDE ran Grandma's in the late seventies. I believe he won Grandma's in about 2:15 (?). I think Garry Bjorklund ran against him a few times in Minnesota. I don't recall the reason that he was living in the Midwest. He didn't win the first Grandma's, may have been Bjorklund in low 2:20s. The first year of Grandma's,1977, the sponsors (Grandma's Saloon and Deli) wanted a NOON start for obvious reasons!! This was in June, and a few hundred runners staggered in, cursing at the race officials for having to run in oppressive heat. The rest, as they say, is history; it started early in the morning the next year!! Scott Keenan, Grandma's only race director, would have the facts.

I stand corrected; I was reading from the Grandmas website, and because Wilde's 1979 performance was the first result listed on the page, I mistakenly thought it was the first Grandmas. Now it's all coming together; I PR'd at Grandmas in 1980 running a Boston Qualifier (which was 2:50 in those days), and naturally would have recognized Wilde's name as the champion from the previous year.

Thanks for filling us in on the details, Steve.

From the Grandma's website:

1979

The Champions:

Richard Wilde, Cheshire, United Kingdom (2:14:44)

Lorraine Moller, Auckland, New Zealand (2:37:37)

Participants: 1,682

Finishers: 19 runners under 2:30, 258 runners under 3:00, 720 runners under 3:30, 1,134 runners under 4:00

Temperature: High - 67 Low - 66

Humidity: 75%, decreased to 47%

Winds: East-northeast at 14 mph with gusts up 23 mph.

General Conditions: Cloudy skies

1978

The Champions:

Barney Klecker, Long Prairie, MN, USA (2:18:42)

Cheryl Westrum, Bloomington, MN, USA (2:57:14)

Registered Runners: 677

Finishers: 4 runners under 2:30, 124 runners under 3:00, 327 runners under 3:30, 483 runners under 4:00

Temperature: High - 62 Low - 58

Humidity: 83%, decreased to 78%

Winds: Light easterly, changed to southerly.

General Conditions: Cloudy skies, 1 1/4 miles visibility, increased to 3 miles

1977

The Champions:

Garry Bjorklund, Minneapolis, MN, USA (2:21:54)

Wendy Hovland, Aurora-Hoyt Lakes, MN, USA (3:23:39)

Registered Runners: 150

Temperature: High - 73 Low - 68

Humidity: 61%, decreased to 32%

Winds: Northerly, light.

General Conditions: Clear skies

Chris Stewart almost was American rather than British. As his track career was winding down I think it dawned on him that there was money to be made on the roads here. He sort of didn't live anyplace but managed to get race directors to put him up when he was racing and had a network of people who'd put him up when he wasn't racing. He also made money dealing in stamps and rare documents and spent a lot of time at various trade shows.

Ricky Wilde was definitely a guy who flew under the radar much of the time. I know Running Times had a brief write up on him after he won Grandma's and he turns up once or twice in Ron Hill's autobiography.

Hill's book(s) are a great source of names of really good runners who were not very well known, Gerry North, Juan Taylor (Dick Taylor's brother)come to mind as does Mike Freary.

And how about Fred Norris, one of the earlier sub 2:20 marathoners and surely the fastest coal miner ever to run a marathon and possibly still the holder of the master's record at the Mount Washington race? Does anyone know if he's still around? He was in poor health the last I'd heard.

The thing is, those guys may have gotten a lot more recognition in the UK than they do here and perhaps wouldn't count as "least known."

HRE wrote:

And how about Fred Norris, one of the earlier sub 2:20 marathoners and surely the fastest coal miner ever to run a marathon and possibly still the holder of the master's record at the Mount Washington race? Does anyone know if he's still around? He was in poor health the last I'd heard.

Wasn't he the Brit in the early 60s who ran for a college somewhere in the South of the USA when is was almost 40 years old? And running when you were almost 40 was practically unheard of in those days.

In theory, Alf Shrubb shouldn’t be a ‘lesser known great’, but because of the era he ran in, perhaps he’s not known to many younger runners.

In one amazing day at Ibrox Park Glasgow, on November 4th 1904, Alf broke the one hour record as well as all amateur records from six to eleven miles, and all professional records eight to eleven miles! He covered eleven miles, 1,137 yards in one hour. This record was not broken until 1951.

If you had a book written about your running and life you have NOT been overlooked. Buddy is not a overlooked runner.

longtimegone wrote:

If you had a book written about your running and life you have NOT been overlooked. Buddy is not a overlooked runner.

Given that the first response to his name was "Who's Buddy Edelen", I respectfully disagree.

HRE, I have a couple of good friends from Dunedin. This morning, one of those guys loaned me a DVD of the 1977 European Championships. And I saw Yifter blow past Virgin in the 10k and Abramov in the 5k. I think Yifter had the most devastating kick of any 5k/10k runner of his era. (Second would probably be Juha Vataainen and third would be Jurgen Haase.) Based on his kick, Yifter might have changed the 5k results in Munich and Montreal. My impression is that Yifter could win any race if he was in contact with 200 meters to go.

Anyway, if you don't mind my asking, are you a Kiwi, a Brit, or an American?

Whoops! I meant the 1979 World Cup. (I've been watching too much track on DVD.)

Living in the Past wrote: This morning, one of those guys loaned me a DVD of the 1977 European Championships. And I saw Yifter blow past Virgin in the 10k and Abramov in the 5k. I think Yifter had the most devastating kick of any 5k/10k runner of his era. (Second would probably be Juha Vataainen and third would be Jurgen Haase.) Based on his kick, Yifter might have changed the 5k results in Munich and Montreal. My impression is that Yifter could win any race if he was in contact with 200 meters to go.

I supposed you skipped over Zurich 1977? ;-)

Excellent, point, Malmo. Liquori did beat Yifter. So that punctures my theory. [I guess that proves that Viren would have outkicked Yifter in 1972 and 1976?] :0)

By the way, did any American middle-distance runner have a longer career at the world class level than Marty Liquori?

Living in the Past wrote:

Excellent, point, Malmo. Liquori did beat Yifter. So that punctures my theory. [I guess that proves that Viren would have outkicked Yifter in 1972 and 1976?] :0)

By the way, did any American middle-distance runner have a longer career at the world class level than Marty Liquori?

Scott and Spivey off the top of my head. Add Marsh and Diemer, and Johnny Gray.

Let's define world class. How about either making an Olympic final or being ranked in the top 10 in the world by T&FN? (You actually met this standard yourself, malmo.)

Liquori made the 1500 meter Olympic final in 1968 and was world ranked in the 5,000 meters in 1978. That is a span of 11 years (although he was injured and missed the standard in 1972, 1973, and 1976). So he met the standard in eight years.

Steve Scott was world ranked number nine in 1977 and number seven in 1988. The only year he missed being in the top 10 in between those years was 1987. So he met the standard in 10 years and beats Liquori.

Spivey was ranked in the top 10 in the 1500 in 84, 86, 87, 88, 91, 92, and 93. He was never ranked in the top 10 in the 5,000. That's seven years for the 1,500. So Liquori beats Spivey.

Henry Marsh was world ranked in the steeplechase every year from 1977 to 1988. That's 12 years. So he beats Liquori.

Brian Diemer was world ranked five times from 1984 to 1992. So Liquori beats Diemer.

Johnny Gray was world ranked 11 times from 84 to 96. So Gray beats Liquori.

Actually, Scott was world ranked 11 years, not 10 years.

James Robinson 8, Jim Ryun 7

I remember watching that race and had never seen such an impressive kick, though I'd never seen either Vataanien or Haase in action.

I'm an American, but I have gotten around a bit more than a lot of Americans do.

To HRE and Malmo: if you guys are interested, I can send you footage of the 1971 European Championships in Helsinki. The last lap of the 10,000 meters (with Vataainen, Haase, and Sharaftnikov) will likely cause your heart to stop.

I'll get a copy made and will be in touch.