Certainly to be the best runner of your era you have to be the best runner that era.
That seems to rule out Ingebrigtsen. He keeps losing in his main event.
Who is the best runner of this era (lets define it as the runners who have participated in one of the two last olympics)? Who is losing less than him? Enlighten me.
Is Kerr the best runner? Do you have your own opinion?
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
And if I try to look for it in the thread I just find pages on pages with off topic discussions by a poster called "justacuriousdude" and another called "armstronglivs" amongst others.
Cute. 1. Maybe my narrowing the interview in to “The Times” and Rojo’s post with a link to the correct article helped the poster (who has a Times account) to help you with the quotes. Or maybe you would have gotten them anyway; who knows… Saying that, it’s a little strange you didn’t knew this about Jakob and “better the longer distance” (I thought you understood Norwegian) -Jakob, his brothers, and Gjert have for a long time now stressed the “long distance view”, f.x in Norwegian interviews. But also in English.
2. “Off topic”? -Depends on the eye. F.x -how high percentage of your posts in this current thread titled Kerr is about him, and not primarily about Jakob and Armstronglivs..? Not that I care; I think quality is key…
1. I found that thread yes, but it had 20+ pages with meaningless discussion not related to the interview. Who said I didn't know? If you read my original post I asked because I wanted to read specifically what he really said that made Armstrong loose his marbles. Not some bad reiteration by Rojo, Armstrong or you.
2. How is that this thread is also a mess of any relevance, other than there are some common characters in both? It certainly isn't a defence.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
To the topic I think Kerr is right, he need both the titles and to run faster times. He has a second and third from the olympics, which is extremely well - but you normally need a gold medal, if not your PR and results from other championships must be really well.
His best 1500 time is 8th all time, which is good, but if we dig into it, two of his contemporaries is ahead of him there and one is right behind him. This is further underlined by him being third fastest in 2024, 8th fastest in 2023, 9th fastest in 2022, 4th fastest in 2021, 15th fastest in 2020.
When we look at world championships we see that he indeed is world champion of 2023 despite being the 8th fastest that year. That gold is really putting him forward as the best runner in 2023 despite his slow time. However, since he is aiming to be the best 1500m runner of this era, his 5th place in 2022, 6th in 2019 isn't supporting this. Even when looking at other championships, it isn't a strong card for him: 12th at the commonwealth games '22, 10th at the U20 champs in '16. He won the european junior champs in 2015, but have been a no show his whole senior career.
When it comes winning at the circuit his largest win stream seems to bee three wins if we remove preliminary championship rounds (azusa bryan clay invitational, ncaa div I, albuquerque mountain west championships) - this was in 2018.
He has a world best in 2mile (i), european record in the indoor mile, and the european record in the 3000 (this was later bested by George Mills, and is 14th on the global list).
Summary: Since he is the 8th fastest all time, third fastest measured against other runners in his era (if measured after Timothy Cheruiyot), have no olympic golds (still, silver and bronze is extremely good), one WC gold, have almost no presence in other championships or on the circuit, he indeed need to have more titles and run faster times.
Runners that is "forgiven" for their lack of speed usually have 5-10x as many gold medals as Kerr have (Mo Farah for instance have 5 european golds, 6 world golds and 4 olympic golds). Chances are slim, he could win a handfull of championship golds the next years which obviously would put him there despite his speed. He could also be able to consistently be the fastest 1500m runner for a few seasons and even set a WR, or a combination of those.
But right now he is one of two winning gold medals in the WC, not one of the two who have won olympic golds in the 1500, and have never been the one with the year best in the 1500. This puts him ahead of Wightman and Nuguse without argument.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
1. I found that thread yes, but it had 20+ pages with meaningless discussion not related to the interview. Who said I didn't know? If you read my original post I asked because I wanted to read specifically what he really said that made Armstrong loose his marbles. Not some bad reiteration by Rojo, Armstrong or you.
2. How is that this thread is also a mess of any relevance, other than there are some common characters in both? It certainly isn't a defence.
1. So were Armstronglivs’, Rojo’s and my version “a bad reiteration” of what Jakob said..? And can’t you at all, not even in the slightest, see that Armstronglivs has a point, when he stresses that Jakob’s sayings and doings don’t seem to align very well (for now) when it comes to the HM..? Or is it so extremely important for you to go after the man and not the ball..?
20+ meaningless pages? -I told you to read the first post on page 1. After that you could have registered (in the Times) or asked for the help that you eventually got…
2. So you don’t play any part in any mess here -it’s all the others..?
This post was edited 17 minutes after it was posted.
To the topic I think Kerr is right, he need both the titles and to run faster times. He has a second and third from the olympics, which is extremely well - but you normally need a gold medal, if not your PR and results from other championships must be really well.
His best 1500 time is 8th all time, which is good, but if we dig into it, two of his contemporaries is ahead of him there and one is right behind him. This is further underlined by him being third fastest in 2024, 8th fastest in 2023, 9th fastest in 2022, 4th fastest in 2021, 15th fastest in 2020.
When we look at world championships we see that he indeed is world champion of 2023 despite being the 8th fastest that year. That gold is really putting him forward as the best runner in 2023 despite his slow time. However, since he is aiming to be the best 1500m runner of this era, his 5th place in 2022, 6th in 2019 isn't supporting this. Even when looking at other championships, it isn't a strong card for him: 12th at the commonwealth games '22, 10th at the U20 champs in '16. He won the european junior champs in 2015, but have been a no show his whole senior career.
When it comes winning at the circuit his largest win stream seems to bee three wins if we remove preliminary championship rounds (azusa bryan clay invitational, ncaa div I, albuquerque mountain west championships) - this was in 2018.
He has a world best in 2mile (i), european record in the indoor mile, and the european record in the 3000 (this was later bested by George Mills, and is 14th on the global list).
Summary: Since he is the 8th fastest all time, third fastest measured against other runners in his era (if measured after Timothy Cheruiyot), have no olympic golds (still, silver and bronze is extremely good), one WC gold, have almost no presence in other championships or on the circuit, he indeed need to have more titles and run faster times.
Runners that is "forgiven" for their lack of speed usually have 5-10x as many gold medals as Kerr have (Mo Farah for instance have 5 european golds, 6 world golds and 4 olympic golds). Chances are slim, he could win a handfull of championship golds the next years which obviously would put him there despite his speed. He could also be able to consistently be the fastest 1500m runner for a few seasons and even set a WR, or a combination of those.
But right now he is one of two winning gold medals in the WC, not one of the two who have won olympic golds in the 1500, and have never been the one with the year best in the 1500. This puts him ahead of Wightman and Nuguse without argument.
Josh Kerr was definitely not the best in 2023. Jakob was better and arguably Nuguse.
You would do better to confine yourself to expressing your own views rather than mine. You don't actually get those. The discussion could be simplified further:
1. Jakob fans (there are no "objective fans" here) think Ingebrigtsen is better because they like him and they don't like Kerr.
2. Secondly, they think the only valid comparison is career titles when if you put the two athletes on the track now the winner 3 out of 4 times is Kerr. We have seen that in the last couple of years. You can now add other runners to the list of those who can beat Ingebrigtsen. In most sports that is decisive. It sure is on the podium.
3. Kerr currently has the measure of Ingebrigtsen over the Norwegian's main distance. That isn't the same as saying Kerr is undoubtedly the best of his era. He acknowledges he will need more championship titles and records to do that - like the greats of previous eras. That pretty much goes without saying. But in that race he is pulling ahead of Ingebrigtsen, as the last couple of years have shown.
There are many objective fans here - distance running fans, not Ingebrigtsen fans. This group doesn't include you (neither objective nor fan - not of Ingebrigtsen, not of distance running).
Currently? The last time they raced, Ingebrigtsen finished 1.94 seconds ahead of Kerr. Exactly double the gap which Kerr has had in his three victories against Ingebrigtsen combinded. Their eight meetings over 1500m/Mile before were all won by Ingebrigtsen.
His main distance? You think he is stronger over 1500m/Mile than over 3000m (and also 5000m)? 7:17.55 in a not perfectly paced single attempt. What could he have done over the distance in 2024? 7:16? 7:15? And in his main distance 1500m? You give him 3:25 potential? Unbeaten over 5000m (for you Dumb: not meant in events longer than 5000m) in the last four seasons.
How many times do you have stated that in sport nothing is for granted? 50 times? More often? But it's a certainty for you, that Kerr pulls ahead of Ingebrigtsen (still far behind at the moment) when he has lost their last race by almost two seconds and is three years older? Let's wait and see.
So you have to keep going to the longer events to bolster your arguments. It makes the reverse case, that Kerr is now better than Jakob over the 1500/mile. 3 wins out of their last 4 meetings shows that. Kerr's 3:44 road mile with a 1:46 last half was also better than anything Ingebrigtsen ran over the distance last year.
You don't know anything about boxing. And not much more about running. You only know who you like.
Then enlighten us about how boxing works, do they get a championship fight for having one high profile win years ago and then spending the rest of the time not fighting compared to the people who are constantly on the circuit and beat up the top contenders?
Boxing is decided by a title fight, not by a list records over a series of fights. If Ingebrigtsen's races against Kerr in the last couple years were each the equivalent of title fights he lost 3 out of 4 times - and 2 of those were in global championships. Kerr has clearly reversed their competitive relationship.
That seems to rule out Ingebrigtsen. He keeps losing in his main event.
Who is the best runner of this era (lets define it as the runners who have participated in one of the two last olympics)? Who is losing less than him? Enlighten me.
Is Kerr the best runner? Do you have your own opinion?
Kerr is now better than Ingebrigtsen and has been so for the last 2 years. 3 wins out of 4 races shows that.
Who is the best runner of this era (lets define it as the runners who have participated in one of the two last olympics)? Who is losing less than him? Enlighten me.
Is Kerr the best runner? Do you have your own opinion?
Kerr is now better than Ingebrigtsen and has been so for the last 2 years. 3 wins out of 4 races shows that.
Wrong. How many races has Kerr won since 2023. Then, how many Kerr has won.
Cute. 1. Maybe my narrowing the interview in to “The Times” and Rojo’s post with a link to the correct article helped the poster (who has a Times account) to help you with the quotes. Or maybe you would have gotten them anyway; who knows… Saying that, it’s a little strange you didn’t knew this about Jakob and “better the longer distance” (I thought you understood Norwegian) -Jakob, his brothers, and Gjert have for a long time now stressed the “long distance view”, f.x in Norwegian interviews. But also in English.
2. “Off topic”? -Depends on the eye. F.x -how high percentage of your posts in this current thread titled Kerr is about him, and not primarily about Jakob and Armstronglivs..? Not that I care; I think quality is key…
1. I found that thread yes, but it had 20+ pages with meaningless discussion not related to the interview. Who said I didn't know? If you read my original post I asked because I wanted to read specifically what he really said that made Armstrong loose his marbles. Not some bad reiteration by Rojo, Armstrong or you.
2. How is that this thread is also a mess of any relevance, other than there are some common characters in both? It certainly isn't a defence.
So quoting Ingebrigtsen is "losing one's marbles". Are you sure you haven't lost yours?
Then enlighten us about how boxing works, do they get a championship fight for having one high profile win years ago and then spending the rest of the time not fighting compared to the people who are constantly on the circuit and beat up the top contenders?
Boxing is decided by a title fight, not by a list records over a series of fights. If Ingebrigtsen's races against Kerr in the last couple years were each the equivalent of title fights he lost 3 out of 4 times - and 2 of those were in global championships. Kerr has clearly reversed their competitive relationship.
So you don't know how boxing works since you don't know that your record over a series of fights is what earns you a title fight, thanks for confirming. Kerr wouldn't have been in a title fight in boxing because he thinks competing more than twice a year is beneath him.
Who is the best runner of this era (lets define it as the runners who have participated in one of the two last olympics)? Who is losing less than him? Enlighten me.
Is Kerr the best runner? Do you have your own opinion?
Kerr is now better than Ingebrigtsen and has been so for the last 2 years. 3 wins out of 4 races shows that.
So you think Kerr is the best 1500m runner thi era despite him not winning gold at the olympics, and not having the fastest times?
Kerr's 3:44 road mile with a 1:46 last half was also better than anything Ingebrigtsen ran over the distance last year.
How convenient that you keep "forgetting" that that road mile is on a net downhill course, that they had a tailwind, that road supershoes are faster than spikes.
And if I try to look for it in the thread I just find pages on pages with off topic discussions by a poster called "justacuriousdude" and another called "armstronglivs" amongst others.
Cute. 1. Maybe my narrowing the interview in to “The Times” and Rojo’s post with a link to the correct article helped the poster (who has a Times account) to help you with the quotes. Or maybe you would have gotten them anyway; who knows… Saying that, it’s a little strange you didn’t knew this about Jakob and “better the longer distance” (I thought you understood Norwegian) -Jakob, his brothers, and Gjert have for a long time now stressed the “long distance view”, f.x in Norwegian interviews. But also in English.
2. “Off topic”? -Depends on the eye. F.x -how high percentage of your posts in this current thread titled Kerr is about him, and not primarily about Jakob and Armstronglivs..? Not that I care; I think quality is key…
You dont even need an account. He just didnt want to read an article. Probably to much time on tiktok and cant stand to read a 5 minute article.
Boxing is decided by a title fight, not by a list records over a series of fights. If Ingebrigtsen's races against Kerr in the last couple years were each the equivalent of title fights he lost 3 out of 4 times - and 2 of those were in global championships. Kerr has clearly reversed their competitive relationship.
So you don't know how boxing works since you don't know that your record over a series of fights is what earns you a title fight, thanks for confirming. Kerr wouldn't have been in a title fight in boxing because he thinks competing more than twice a year is beneath him.
Earning the right to a title fight only does that - like qualifying for a WC or Olympic final (which Kerr does). It doesn't decide the title. The race does. Just like when Kerr beats Ingebrigtsen, the contender takes the title. He's done it 3 out of 4 times in their last meetings.
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