True. One of Nic’s athletes had surgery close to a major competition then had to perform a fitness test to be allowed to complete and AA set the track splits for the test . Nic over-ruled AA’s request somehow and dictated them to do another session. The athlete came last in the heat at the major competition. He’s definitely got more power with things which is why it’s not a level playing field.
It’s possible a similar situation happened with Sinead a week or so out ??
And over it all this insinuation that we, the fans- those who pay to go to Aths events, watch the streams, buy the Nike gear...all the things that keep athletes funded- are trolls for talking about how gross this has all been.
100%. Just to clarify, I'm not saying that we should be allowed to be give the athletes a spray. But we are stakeholders of AA through our support, financially and time spent volunteering etc. AA is meant to be putting forward the best team to represent us, and it's clearly gone drastically wrong - for similar reasons to teams before. And if I suggest that I don't like how the event went, I'm a troll? And then add in that people around Sinead apparently cracked the s**** at Brady and the IRP guys for answering a question about whether Sinead should show fitness...
Again, not saying I should be allowed to go into Sinead's (or Olli Hoare for example) DMs and say mean things. But I can certainly question why she was on the startline and why someone didn't intervene. People can't do things like "bad tweets, bad podcast, hidden injuries, DNF, weird explanations, more tweets...." and then expect that we won't mention any of this again!
Agreed. There’s nothing wrong discussing online and putting an opinion forward, it’s no different to chatting with friends; you don’t have to agree on everything.
It’s the athlete’s own choice to read Letsrun forums. Just because the athlete might read something negative doesn’t mean the author’s a troll. If the athlete is so affected, maybe they shouldn’t put out podcasts in the public domain making snide comments either.
Nic had 5 athletes that he coaches in the marathon: Sinead Diver, Brett Robinson, Gen Gregson, Camille French (née Buscomb) and Charlotte Purdue.
Of those 5, 2 didn't start due to injury, and 1 probably shouldn't have. Camille was 60th in 2:37, Gen was 24th in 2:29.
So maybe Nic needs to take a better look in the mirror and recognise that maybe this more of a reflection of his own poor coaching, rather than a global phenomenon.
I mean, you could make the counter-argument that he was a good enough coach to have 5 athletes qualify for the Olympic marathon, but I get your point.
I've always thought his weekly marathon block structure was poorly designed.
From what I've heard (and seen) the marathoners do their biggest marathon specific workout on a Friday (e.g. 4 x 5k @ MP), then do a fairly hard long run on the Sunday (usually 35k+ often with quality thrown in), then back up again on a Tuesday for 8 x 1k repeats at around 10k race pace.
I guess it works well when the athletes stay in one piece, but that's seemingly hard to do.
not having a go or disagreeing with you, but in what way do you think it is badly designed? Do you think the density is too high? Do you think the sessions should be on Tuesday and Thursday to allow a longer break after the harder session?
I actually think a pared back version of the NB marathon block is quite good for a simple approach to marathon training. Better than Pfitzinger or daniels. However I reckon for runners more used to the marathon the massive marathon specific sessions aren't as inportant and the kenyan model (no massive marathon simulation w/o s) might work better.
I mean, you could make the counter-argument that he was a good enough coach to have 5 athletes qualify for the Olympic marathon, but I get your point.
I've always thought his weekly marathon block structure was poorly designed.
From what I've heard (and seen) the marathoners do their biggest marathon specific workout on a Friday (e.g. 4 x 5k @ MP), then do a fairly hard long run on the Sunday (usually 35k+ often with quality thrown in), then back up again on a Tuesday for 8 x 1k repeats at around 10k race pace.
I guess it works well when the athletes stay in one piece, but that's seemingly hard to do.
not having a go or disagreeing with you, but in what way do you think it is badly designed? Do you think the density is too high? Do you think the sessions should be on Tuesday and Thursday to allow a longer break after the harder session?
I actually think a pared back version of the NB marathon block is quite good for a simple approach to marathon training. Better than Pfitzinger or daniels. However I reckon for runners more used to the marathon the massive marathon specific sessions aren't as inportant and the kenyan model (no massive marathon simulation w/o s) might work better.
I think having your two biggest days on Friday and Sunday is too close of a turnaround. Especially when you factor in the quality of the workouts, and the fact that throughout general training, his athletes are rarely running over 30k once in a week.
To then do an intense 30k+ twice in a 50 hour period is just asking for an overuse injury.
Then the athletes also have to back up on the Tuesday and do their most intense workout of the week.
To me it seems unsustainable, and his athletes would likely get a lot less injuries with an extra day between workouts (at least between the really big ones anyway).
His athletes are professionals (for the most part), so I don't see why they need to adhere to a 7 day cycle.
I think having your two biggest days on Friday and Sunday is too close of a turnaround. Especially when you factor in the quality of the workouts, and the fact that throughout general training, his athletes are rarely running over 30k once in a week.
To then do an intense 30k+ twice in a 50 hour period is just asking for an overuse injury.
Then the athletes also have to back up on the Tuesday and do their most intense workout of the week.
To me it seems unsustainable, and his athletes would likely get a lot less injuries with an extra day between workouts (at least between the really big ones anyway).
His athletes are professionals (for the most part), so I don't see why they need to adhere to a 7 day cycle.
Hahaha this. Despite the way he sounds, Nic's not dumb. Everything he says is for a reason. It's all calculated. I'm sure if you break down all of his answers throughout the interview, he was having a subtle crack at people.
Nic had 5 athletes that he coaches in the marathon: Sinead Diver, Brett Robinson, Gen Gregson, Camille French (née Buscomb) and Charlotte Purdue.
Of those 5, 2 didn't start due to injury, and 1 probably shouldn't have. Camille was 60th in 2:37, Gen was 24th in 2:29.
So maybe Nic needs to take a better look in the mirror and recognise that maybe this more of a reflection of his own poor coaching, rather than a global phenomenon.
I mean, you could make the counter-argument that he was a good enough coach to have 5 athletes qualify for the Olympic marathon, but I get your point.
I've always thought his weekly marathon block structure was poorly designed.
From what I've heard (and seen) the marathoners do their biggest marathon specific workout on a Friday (e.g. 4 x 5k @ MP), then do a fairly hard long run on the Sunday (usually 35k+ often with quality thrown in), then back up again on a Tuesday for 8 x 1k repeats at around 10k race pace.
I guess it works well when the athletes stay in one piece, but that's seemingly hard to do.
If an athlete is already doing high base mileage (Sinead's talked in past about routinely logging 120-140mi weeks, and I imagine his other athletes are in a similar boat volume-wise), asking them to do all three of those workouts in 5 days as just training is asking far too much for the desired result.
Too many dimwit elite coaches program like this and, depending on the athlete's talent/durability and whatever they may be taking to stay upright through all this, both parties can get away with it to a point. If the athletes survive and perform, the coaches get praised even though the approach is career homicide in the long run.
The needed dose to build necessary fitness is probably way, way below all of this.
Hahaha this. Despite the way he sounds, Nic's not dumb. Everything he says is for a reason. It's all calculated. I'm sure if you break down all of his answers throughout the interview, he was having a subtle crack at people.
Not much love for Bideau here. What coaches in Australia do rate?
Dick Telford, renowned distance coach and coach of Cam Myers, is well respected and has a good record (based out of Canberra).
Justin Rinaldi obviously for 800s, has another lesser known athlete, femalse who ran 400s, then went to 800s, then took a year off I think, then after 6-9 months back ran a 1.59.0, but didn't make the Olympics because Aus had 3 better (based out of Melb).
For other events you have Alec Stewart in the HJ, he coaches the men's AR holder and comm champion, plus the women's no.2 ever (in Aust), got bronze in Paris, 2.02 jumper, has won world champs (based out of Sydney). Matt Horsnell coaches repeat Olympic silver medallist Nicola Olyslagers, but he is a couple of hours north of Sydney and has less quality athletes to work with. Sandro Bisetto out of Melbourne is also a top HJ coach.
For PV for sure Paul Burgess (former 6m jumper), , Nina Kennedy's coach (out of Perth).
For sprints and horizontal jumps Andrew Murphy (who went to 3 x Olympics himself in TJ) had 4-5 athletes in Paris, in men's and women's 100 and men's horizontal jumps - including his son - (based out of Sydney).
All of the above coaches (and many others) are well thought of as far as I know.
Bideau has other issues - his athletes are injured a lot (that comment of his about every athlete being injured was BS, deflecting and butt-covering), they have no speed so he does the easy part (add mileage) but struggles with the harder part (add effective event-specific speed). He made his name taking on Cathy Freeman after she was already good, and comes across as wrapped up in himself. His former athlete Craig Mottram is probably a better coach, certainly for mid-distance (coaches the highly impressive junior Claudia Hollingsworth among others, who made the SF in Paris).
I mean, you could make the counter-argument that he was a good enough coach to have 5 athletes qualify for the Olympic marathon, but I get your point.
I've always thought his weekly marathon block structure was poorly designed.
From what I've heard (and seen) the marathoners do their biggest marathon specific workout on a Friday (e.g. 4 x 5k @ MP), then do a fairly hard long run on the Sunday (usually 35k+ often with quality thrown in), then back up again on a Tuesday for 8 x 1k repeats at around 10k race pace.
I guess it works well when the athletes stay in one piece, but that's seemingly hard to do.
not having a go or disagreeing with you, but in what way do you think it is badly designed? Do you think the density is too high? Do you think the sessions should be on Tuesday and Thursday to allow a longer break after the harder session?
I actually think a pared back version of the NB marathon block is quite good for a simple approach to marathon training. Better than Pfitzinger or daniels. However I reckon for runners more used to the marathon the massive marathon specific sessions aren't as inportant and the kenyan model (no massive marathon simulation w/o s) might work better.
The women also likely "over-run" everything. Charlotte and Sinead are probably the best examples of this. They will do their long-runs with the MTC men, often averaging 4:00 or faster with massive negative splits, sometimes on very difficult terrain. If you're doing sessions Thursday/Saturday and then absolutely smashing the Sunday long run, you're going to start every week in a hole.
As others have noted, there's no reason you have to adhere to a 7-day cycle, yet Nic is archaic and does a standard Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday for workouts more or less all year long. Sunday isn't included as a "work out" in the same way that other coaches might use it as a structured long, but his athletes treat it like one. This lends itself to overuse injuries and other issues.
LRC coaches thread in shambles, spend their whole life coaching just to get one athlete to a 14:10 5k in their senior year, while Jess Hull's dad works full time laying tiles and just took his athlete to Olympic silver 2 years into coaching her.
Actually possibly the opposite, I've heard through the rumour mill before that when athletes join they can be lured into less than ideal financial deals/personal loans that mean they are stuck with the group and Nic for longer than wanted. I will admit this is heard through people but it makes sense for athletes who seem to stay longer than expected and why no one leaves.
Nic gets all his athletes when they're already good and most of the time absolutely ruins them. Jude Thomas is a good example. He's been injured all bloody year. If you listen to some of the older podcasts with MTC athletes, most of the athletes are in debt to Nic. He fronts up the cost for their travel, housing etc. and then they pay him back at the end of the year. This is also why they race as much as possible on the circuit (even when not fit or with niggles) - Because the more they race, the more likely they are to pay Nic more money.
If you listen to some of the older podcasts with MTC athletes, most of the athletes are in debt to Nic. He fronts up the cost for their travel, housing etc. and then they pay him back at the end of the year. This is also why they race as much as possible on the circuit (even when not fit or with niggles) - Because the more they race, the more likely they are to pay Nic more money.
As others have noted, there's no reason you have to adhere to a 7-day cycle, yet Nic is archaic and does a standard Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday for workouts more or less all year long. Sunday isn't included as a "work out" in the same way that other coaches might use it as a structured long, but his athletes treat it like one. This lends itself to overuse injuries and other issues.
Nic gets all his athletes when they're already good and most of the time absolutely ruins them. Jude Thomas is a good example. He's been injured all bloody year. If you listen to some of the older podcasts with MTC athletes, most of the athletes are in debt to Nic. He fronts up the cost for their travel, housing etc. and then they pay him back at the end of the year. This is also why they race as much as possible on the circuit (even when not fit or with niggles) - Because the more they race, the more likely they are to pay Nic more money.
agree with your sentiment but Jude Thomas hasn't been injured at all this year? Did you just completely make that up?
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