Awesome Jakob Ingebrigtsen profile in The Times: When I'm done, I want there to be no doubt I'm the GOAT.

You might follow your own advice. I didn't say it is the only form of cross-training. A simple distinction but beyond you.

They don't. You merely get a circle jerk going.

It really provokes quite a tantrum when you encounter views you don't like.

In the meantime, after all this frothing and spluttering about Jakob he has won no more races, broken no more records, and despite the contorted claims made here he isn't the best 22 year old distance runner in history and is no closer to becoming the GOAT - a goal he is unlikely to achieve.

I’m a Jakob fan good as anyone. But that doesn’t mean I buy everything he’s saying or thinking about his own training… And let me remind you that both Gjert and Filip had a common saying where they told us viewers that Jakob is living in his own “cuckoo world” when it comes to (estimates of) training times..! And even if he wasn’t -doing some threshold training without checking the effect on longer (properly paced) all out distances -meaning time trail races -just can’t be a realistic answer…

You choose to have faith in Jakob’s estimates of his own talent -based on threshold pace, lactic measurement and so on. Fine by me -you, and he, may be right. But there are also some indications that you are wrong:

When Jakob was 19 years 1 month old he ran 10 k roads at 27.54 NR. So here is my take on this race: He ran one minute too slow! The course is quite fast, and the weather was OK, and he broke Sondre Nordstad Moen’s course record by 1 sec. And Sondre himself ran 27.24 NR on the track two years later in similar shape as in his road race… Well, the 27.54 might have been a jog for Jakob, but it wasn’t -his brother Filip paced quite a few km in the race in a really decent speed, and Jakob then took it over quite seriously, and gave it his best all the way…(it seemed).

And what about other 10k’s? His best performance in Euro xc (circa 10k) was maybe the hilly one in 2022 -against people like Cairess, Crippa, Kimeli (pb’s a little plus / minus Moen’s 10000m pb). No match for Jakob, but what to expect when second placer Cairess has 27.34 track pb)…

You take it for granted that Jakob is maybe the best in the world ever in 10k / half marathon when the little he has shown wouldn’t place him in top 100! -A guy who barely runs Sub 28 when he clearly anytime could do sub 3.30 as a 19 years old claim to be better the longer the distance! So when did he show a sub 26.45 capacity or a sub 59.20, f.ex (The WR holder in the 10000m still hasn’t achieved the latter…).

I have followed Jakob since he was ten years old. And almost from the start I thought that this guy can maybe go all the way in the 5000m, and even also in the 1500m. And when Tefera and Barega as youngsters ran faster I didn’t lose the faith, because Jakob seemed to build stone on stone, year after year with progress. But 10k / half marathon is where he hasn’t shown a thing -beating a 27.34 guy (easily) in a hilly course can of course be a sign of sub 27 potential. But 26.10?

Jakob has surprised before, and can do it again. (I know of no absolute hinderance). And he may have potential yet to be seen.. But for me this will be two huge unexpected pluses. Better that, than a huge (unnecessary) disappointment… He can be the Goat if fast enough 1500-5000m / enough golds without the long distances!

Agreed with this post. Jakob indeed likes saying things for effect, and he never would have a problem believing in himself or projecting any lofty ambitions.

Even in June 2021, he ran his lone DL 5,000 and it was a great victory. However, if he was so much better suited to the 5,000 (and up) from a maximal performance sense than the 1,500 why would he have let the leaders create any gaps at all? He left it quite late and his top competition in the race (after Cheptegei faltered) was Hagos Gebrhiwet doubling back the Ethiopian Trials not long before it. He beat him by .5 not 2+ seconds or something. He ran 3:28.3 later that year in his 3rd race in 5 days with some celebration. After seeing last year, we know 3:28.3 is a different (and more elite) territory than 12:48.

Is the argument that Jakob was running just to win...in a DL race? Doesn't seem his style if he is the class of the field, where he wants to dominate his competition. Obviously he is better now, but I don't really know why I should think the HM/10K are the events where he will run the best PBs.

Absolutely.

- no more wins

- no more records

and this while not racing (probably also because of injury problems).

So, extremely important that Dumb points on this.

But nobody has claimed Ingebrigtsen is the best 22 year old distance runner in history. He definitely is in the top 10, maybe even in the top 5.

But with his next point Dumb is right again! Unlikely that Ingebrigtsen will become the GOAT distance runner (5% chance?).

But with all the stuff he up to age 22 already has achieved it seems POSSIBLE that he can be successful with his enormously ambitious goal and ANY distance running fan (a group which definitely doesn't include our friend Armhater) must be extremely interested in his races to come.

Let's wait and see!

Let's go back to Andreas Almgren. Former 800 and 1500 runner, haven't accomplished anything special on the world stage, 1500 PB of 3:32, 5k PB of 13:01, switches his training to the Ingebrigtsens after receiving tips and input directly from the brothers, and what times is he putting up in the 10k and HM?

59:22 HM, second ever in Europe, and 26:52 10k on track, third ever in Europe, first time he ever races both of those events. And I don't think Andreas Almgren is somehow a more talented distance runner than Jakob.

Well reasoned. The question you pose at the end of "if he is fast enough over the 1500-5000 with enough golds" is key. I don't see him adding enough to his resume over those distances to put himself in the GOAT discussion. I don't think he has the speed to dominate the 1500 in the way the best in history have shown and I don't think he is a "true" 5k runner like Bekele and Farah were. Jakob's best distances may be from the 2k to 2 mile.

It has been claimed earlier on this thread that no one likely has a better cv in history over the 1500-5k at age 22. So that's effectively suggesting he is the best ever 22 year old md or distance runner. (I still don't agree with that). But it is important that you shift the goal posts to make it easier for Jakob. One way of doing it is to now claim he's in the "top ten' for his age - which, if it had been stated at the outset, I would probably have not disputed.

You now say it's only "possible" he may be the GOAT - which isn't really worth debating, since what is "possible" may be only a very small chance - and it isn't what he is claiming, which is that he will finish his career as the best in history. It may be "possible", as you now say, but I think it extremely unlikely. But he would probably be in contention for being amongst the top ten in history at the end of his career - or even the top five if he continues to add to his achievements.

You literally equalled cross training to treadmill running. But admitting you are wrong is beyond you.

No, the claim he is the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k suggests he is the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k. You understand now?

You don't agree? Who has done better for you? Elliott with no results above the Mile?

Just give a name, than we can compare.

I have not shifted anything just by an inch, Dumb.

Making it easier for Ingebrigtsen? What's your point, Dumb?

Distance running: 800m and longer.

Best up to and including age 22:

Definitely Bekele (12:37.35 +26:20.31) and Gebrselassie (12:44.38 + 26:43.53).

Coe (1:42.33 + 3:32.03 + 3:48.95).

I'm sure you can give many more names when you are untcertain if Ingebrigtsen is in the top 10 .

But I see you got the point you were wrongly discussing now after just 10+ pages. What has happend?

12:44.39

I give him a serious chance to become GOAT distance runner (because of his wondrous achievements up to age 22).

For sure he also can't be sure to reach this high goal

But for sure he knows much better what his form is right now and what he wants. Just let us wait and see, Dumbo.

I think this is a pretty misleading account of Almgren. He came up as an 800m and below runner (22.88/48.33 at age 16, but I assume he ran faster in non-WA meets) with a 1:45.59 PB run just after his 20th birthday. In 2014, he won World Junior bronze at 800. So he was a major 800m prospect, but beset by injuries and going backwards until he switched to double threshold. As far as I know this an entire breakthrough of 3:32/13:01/26:52/59:21 has occurred through the years of double threshold. Someone can get the timeline on it locked down, but he basically did nothing of note until 2020-2021, when he starts showing promise in the 3,000.

I don' think anyone is saying he is more talented than Jakob, although he is more naturally gifted as far as speed. But, you have to understand that 59:22 is a silly time in the HM when you are talking about a guy running 3:43 and 7:54 for the 2 mile. Of course, Jakob should blow that out of the water. But 7:54 is a great time and the standard to have the 10K/HM be his best event would be to run times like 26:05 and 57:25. Not merely beating Almgren with ease or stacking up well to soft European marks.

Yes, that's the point, if a less talented runner than Jakob can adopt Jakobs training and immediately become one of the best Europeans in history in events he's never ran before, then Jakob is definitely beating that

Also, part of the reason for why Almgren hasn't performed better historically is because he's been injury ridden pretty much every single season for his career, so it would require a catastrophic injury list to slow Jakob down.

Kjære nysgerrige gut (Dear curious dude).
I don´t know if I am a fan of Jakob but I think it is wellknown that I am interested in seeing how far he can go and that I for many years have been one of the most optimistic posters
regarding his potential to run fast over multiple distances. I think I became aware of him when he won his first European U20 X country championship in Chia in 2016. I watched that race to follow some of my country men (boys) running (as you probably know: I am not Norwegian).

You are not certain that Jakob is right about HM being his best distance. I appreciate that you don´t want to trust Jakob blindly, especially when you are a self declared Norwegian fan BUT…..I WILL ARGUE THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL HARD FACTS WHICH SUPPORT JAKOB´S OPINION:

You have followed him from he was 10 years old so I assume you know that he ran a 8,2 km in just under 30 minutes at that age. Which was a very impressive longdistance performance considering his age.

And you probably also know that he in the following years were tested by professor Leif Inge Tjelta annually and that his TRESHOLD PACE (equal to what you can run for one hour) was exceptional high for his age.

At age 16 (around New Year 2016/2017) his threshold pace was measured to 19,3 km/hour.
The next year when he was 17 the threshold pace had reportedly increased dramatically so Jakob´s mark with margin was better than any Norwegian elite athlete Tjelta had ever tested (Tjelta had tested such athletes for decades). (Marius Bakken´s threshold pace
was reportedly 20,8 km/ hour when he set the Norwegian 5000m record in 2004 in
13:06).

Jakob´s exact threshold pace at 17 was kept secrete but the number made Gjert state that Jakob could run a HM under an hour. Do you have any idea about what the number could be? I WILL SAY IT ALMOST CERTAINLY WAS FASTER THAN 21.0975 KM/HOUR!

So at 17 Jakob was possibly already a sub 1 hour runner in the HM. He had most likely increased his threshold pace with close to 2km/ hour in one year.

We still don´t know the annual increases in his threshold pace (I don´t even know if he still gets tested) but the pace must have increased significantly since he from age 16 to
17 he improved his 5000m time with 18 seconds and since then he has increased his 5000m time with further around 40 seconds (I estimate he is at least a 12:37 runner now).

That is why I estimated his current threshold pace to 23-24km/ hour. You didn´t calculate what such a threshold pace means for his HM time but I can disclose that 22km per hour is
well under 58 minutes for the HM.

Is it realistic that Jakob can run the fast HMs as his threshold paces through the years indicates?

Well, in September 2017 he –as you know - destroyed Sondre Moen in the 5000m in the Norwegian championship (in a long weekend where Jakob also ran heat and final in the 800m and 1500m AND final in the 3000m SC) and Moen went on to run 59:48 in the HM just over a month later. So isn´t it realistic that Jakob some further months later registered a threshold pace which indicated a HM under 1 hour?

There are more numbers supporting his longdistance abilities. I will dechifer these numbers in a later post.

Yeah nobody argued that Jakob wouldn’t be very good at the 10K/HM. It’s whether he as a guy running 3:27.1/3:43/7:54 is really away from his best events. He is the world’s best in those 3 events and historically great. The same in the 10K/HM is probably sub-26:10/57:3x which is not Andreas Almgren territory.

No I didn't. Was I required to specify every kind of cross training when giving an example? Arguments aren't within your skill-set. Maybe nothing is.