Cidd wrote:
Look at his post history. Just another Tuohy simp.
Starting to notice a pattern with these weirdo’s.
I never mentioned Tuohy. But now you do, she doesn't throw up red flags like Valby does.
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Shall we start accusing Elise Stearns of NAU of doping as well?
2021 estimated fitness: 16:25
2022 estimated fitness: 15:36
According to Astro, this is more than enough evidence to run her name through the mud as an obvious doper.
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generational talent wrote:
0% wrote:
Fwiw, Astro predicted this exact scenario on the boards, that Valby would drop another massive PB after layoff.
What ‘layoff’? Are you now saying she hasn’t been training?
Of course she’s been evidently training. And if she has been training well, and consistently, then it is not rocket science to predict her time will drop from the previous time when she was coming off a foot injury.
Your post is idiotic and cringeworthy, something like “I predict if athlete A gets too fast and threatens tooee (evident by a new PR) then they are doping.”
She was training while injured? She didn't need to recover?
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Having coached for many years, I have seen all types of improvement and the opposite for girls. One girl had a PR of 19:30 until senior year when she decided she wanted to run in college. She upped mileage from 20 junior year to 30 senior year and just tried harder in races and she ran 17:40. I have seen many girls make a huge jump sophomore year only to go backward after that. I think Valby's improvements are primarily to maturation and a focus on diet and cross training. It isn't hard to eliminate junk food and replace with healthy choices which leans a runner out even if not losing and weight.
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generational talent wrote:
0% wrote:
She was coming off the broken foot at conference champs, regionals and nationals where she PBd in every event, by a lot each time. She had surgery in June after nationals for something else and is coming off of that issue now.
That is what I meant. She set a PB at Nationals after having a broken foot, and evidently discoverrd the wonders of (evidently) massive cross-training.
What was the surgery in June? Minor or Major? Was it related to the foot injury? Regardless, it’s not very relevant now If she has been getting in quality training the past few months.
One interesting question is just how good can Valby get with a year or two of consistent quality training/diet, etc.
When we see an athlete making a big improvement straight after coming off dealing with injury we are looking at doping. Contrary to popular belief here, injury impedes performance and it takes time to recover. It isn't the basis for a sudden jump in performance - or it wasn't an "injury".
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Debate rebate wrote:
Having coached for many years, I have seen all types of improvement and the opposite for girls. One girl had a PR of 19:30 until senior year when she decided she wanted to run in college. She upped mileage from 20 junior year to 30 senior year and just tried harder in races and she ran 17:40. I have seen many girls make a huge jump sophomore year only to go backward after that. I think Valby's improvements are primarily to maturation and a focus on diet and cross training. It isn't hard to eliminate junk food and replace with healthy choices which leans a runner out even if not losing and weight.
If her improvement is due to "maturation, diet and cross training", as you suggest, then that kind of jump would be the norm amongst her age group. Many would be following the same. Yet most don't show that kind of improvement. There's something she's doing that they aren't.
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Could have sworn you wrote it was likely doping when you saw the rating earlier. Was that a moment of clarity or screen identity theft?
Anyway when an athlete puts up obvious red flags and suddenly runs times in the doping zone, that's when warning bells go off. So if after going from 16:25 to 15:36, perfectly standard college times, the athlete suddenly runs a sub 15 rated time a few months later, the yes, that is a red flag.
Think in terms of Houlihan going from 15:49 to 15:06 presuper shoes a few months after joining btc. If she had run 15:30s or even 15:20s in that era then would have been in the standard range. Instead she pops off a low 15s (sub 15 today) and makes a world team. The power of chemistry.
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Easiest prediction I ever made. The pattern was already there after she came back and ran three successive significant 5000m pbs.
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I agree that Houlihan’s progression was a massive red flag. However, I know people who made that type of jump (or even bigger) after a good summer of training. She had plateaued and then ran that, but it’s not uncommon to see people improve by nearly a minute after growing physically and running more miles.
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On the remarks about Elly Henes. She has moved to training under Smith at altitude with good training partners having run 15:18 by herself, and then winning NCAA last year. Not surprised she is a lot faster. 14:52 is maybe a little faster that I would have guessed at this point.
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FastTuohy wrote:
something I don't understand but maybe those who know Valby better, or running better than I can explain is how Valby is this talented, yet having started competing in the fall of 2016 (9th grade) was still only running 2:30ish, 5:10ish and 11:00ish for 800, 1 and 2 miles in the Spring of 2018? She seemed to run full seasons for XC in 2016 and 2017 and track in 2018 and 2018. A year later something starts clicking and she runs 10:10 in 2019. She was certainly not as good as Tuohy initially was in 7th grade coming off the soccer field (2:17, 4:55).
I dunno specifics, but an article cited earlier said (I surmised) her coach at the time saw the talent there as soon as she left la crosse and started running x-country. It kept progressing up to the point of winning a state championship.
I haven’t yet found the podcast someone mentioned, but maybe there is more info in it.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
Debate rebate wrote:
Having coached for many years, I have seen all types of improvement and the opposite for girls. One girl had a PR of 19:30 until senior year when she decided she wanted to run in college. She upped mileage from 20 junior year to 30 senior year and just tried harder in races and she ran 17:40. I have seen many girls make a huge jump sophomore year only to go backward after that. I think Valby's improvements are primarily to maturation and a focus on diet and cross training. It isn't hard to eliminate junk food and replace with healthy choices which leans a runner out even if not losing and weight.
If her improvement is due to "maturation, diet and cross training", as you suggest, then that kind of jump would be the norm amongst her age group. Many would be following the same. Yet most don't show that kind of improvement. There's something she's doing that they aren't.
But one thing she is evidently doing that another phenomenon (Cook) is doing as well, which I find very interesting, is the cross-training, and maybe a lot of it.
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FastTuohy wrote:
On the remarks about Elly Henes. She has moved to training under Smith at altitude with good training partners having run 15:18 by herself, and then winning NCAA last year. Not surprised she is a lot faster. 14:52 is maybe a little faster that I would have guessed at this point.
Elly henes made this improvement in a fast pro race at diamond leagues (she didn't win) after an entire year of uninterrupted pro training at altitude under smith.
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Sounds like doping. Every pro dopes you know.
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Either that or Henes is just a crappy coach. I guess both could be true.
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0% wrote:
FastTuohy wrote:
On the remarks about Elly Henes. She has moved to training under Smith at altitude with good training partners having run 15:18 by herself, and then winning NCAA last year. Not surprised she is a lot faster. 14:52 is maybe a little faster that I would have guessed at this point.
Elly henes made this improvement in a fast pro race at diamond leagues (she didn't win) after an entire year of uninterrupted pro training at altitude under smith.
Yea, she had run 15:06 finishing the race with one shoe back in May (Sound Running). Steady progression over the year.
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Nobody should have to explain the progression of young Americans. The times should be celebrated. There should be pages of praises for Valby. Henes' time should be celebrated.
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generational talent wrote:
I haven’t yet found the podcast someone mentioned, but maybe there is more info in it.
I just came across this one. I’ll give it a listen.30 -
I love how we can have 20 pages speculating that Valby is a doper, but a thread asking why Tuohy gets a pass is deleted within 10 minutes. I guess it helps to have a fan club of deranged letsrunners stalking you since high school that will rationalize all of your performances and attack anyone they see as a threat.
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Wow. You are correct. It is gone. Where is Rojo? He comments on many trivial threads but is silent on this very controversial one.
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