Official RunningLane National Championships thread

blue man wrote:

Here is a point. Hough ran one of the fastest times at eastbay MW in history 2 weeks ago. He ran faster than Fisher, Jacobs, Futsum, Tegancamp, Derrick, Mead, Kincaid, Darling, Veatch, and several Footlocker national champs. He ran 1 second slower than Solinsky. I think he should be close to the NP guys since he ran faster than most all-time greats.

Agreed!

But :39 quicker is like over 200 METERS...that's a HUGE difference between courses if both are supposed to be 5k

Jashue67 wrote:

Now that I got that out of my system, I want to ask what I came here to ask:

Does anyone know why Saratoga didn’t participate in any post season competition? I noticed that FM didn’t either— and for that matter, NO New York team did. If fact— scouring the listed of runners in RXC and Eastbay, I didn’t see any individuals from NY anywhere either. Kind of strange, I thought.

Two NY girls ran in the Gold Race (Alexa Doe, 60th and McKinley Fielding, 183rd) ... Several NY guys ran in the non-Gold races ... But that's all.

I do not know why the Saratoga Girls did not run.

Steel Tapeless wrote:

blue man wrote:

Here is a point. Hough ran one of the fastest times at eastbay MW in history 2 weeks ago. He ran faster than Fisher, Jacobs, Futsum, Tegancamp, Derrick, Mead, Kincaid, Darling, Veatch, and several Footlocker national champs. He ran 1 second slower than Solinsky. I think he should be close to the NP guys since he ran faster than most all-time greats.

Agreed!

But :39 quicker is like over 200 METERS...that's a HUGE difference between courses if both are supposed to be 5k

I am aware of no one who has ever called the Parkside course, used for the Eastbay MW meet, fast. It's very hilly and usually muddy in late November. It's much harder than the Alabama course.

Another Option wrote:

Steel Tapeless wrote:

Agreed!

But :39 quicker is like over 200 METERS...that's a HUGE difference between courses if both are supposed to be 5k

I am aware of no one who has ever called the Parkside course, used for the Eastbay MW meet, fast. It's very hilly and usually muddy in late November. It's much harder than the Alabama course.

Many courses in Wisconsin are much more difficult and slower than Parkside.

No. Most state venues are not this spectator friendly. Spectators have access to the entire course here and are able to see the entire race unfold from start to finish basically. That coupled with a high caliber of teams and individual runners leads to a crazy amount of energy. Other venues may produce “quick” times but this is a whole other level.

nprunner74 wrote:

No. Most state venues are not this spectator friendly. Spectators have access to the entire course here and are able to see the entire race unfold from start to finish basically. That coupled with a high caliber of teams and individual runners leads to a crazy amount of energy. Other venues may produce “quick” times but this is a whole other level.

Many cross country courses take place on golf courses where "spectators have access to the entire course and are able to see the entire race unfold from start to finish basically". That doesn't make the course "quick".

[quote]Heartless wrote:

A lot of you are missing the point here in your defensiveness. It’s not as if the NP guys ran ~14:05 and beat the other contenders by :30. That would be reason to be defending them the way you are. There were two guys right amongst them at the finish. Hough’s 2M PR is right around 9:00. He ran a very surprising 4:07 mile in the post-season last year, but besides that run, his best 1600m was like 4:13. They beat Riley Hough by :5-6 yesterday.

It’s not about the NP guys. They’re incredible. Its about thinking that Hough is a 14:10 5K XC guy. It’s about the course being the reason why THE ENTIRE FIELD PR’d by :20-:40 on average. It’s silly.[/quote

Tully Runners seems to agree.

Speed rating of 203 for Sahlman

202 for Young's

201 for Bergen

Compare to:

Highest rating from 2020= Riley Hough @ 196

2019 = Nico Young @ 205 (NXN)

2007 = German Fernandez @ 209

Amazing race last Saturday, but nowhere close to Nico or German's past performances.

Seems the course is dubious compared to others, not for lacking the firepower, but actually because the amount of quality competitors of known abilities ALL shattering their PRs

UtahXC wrote:

A dominate win for Newbury Park, but on a side note a huge win for the state of Utah. If you look at the combined boys results, 6 Utah teams are in the top 18:

6th - Farmington, UT

10th - American Fork, UT

13th - Corner Canyon (Draper, UT)

14th - Mountain View, (Orem, UT)

17th - Skyridge (Lehi, UT)

18th - Riverton, UT

If you expand the scope to the whole Nike Southwest Region you could add in the 4 Colorado Teams from the combined boys results:

2nd - Cheyenne Mountain

8th - Niwot

9th - Valor Christian

11th - Mountain Vista

That puts 10 Utah and Colorado teams in the top 18 Nationally. Great year for Utah and Colorado, really legitimizing the depth of the Nike Southwest Region. People complain that some years they get 2 at-large-bids to NXN, taking 4 teams, but it looks like some years they deserve more than that.

NXN Region Comparisons BOYS:

1.CA SW: 2,6,8,9,10,11,12,15,17

2.SW CA: 1,7,13

3.NW NW: 3,20,22,24

4.NE SO: 5,16,21,29

5.SO MW: 14,19,23,27

6.SW NE: 4,26

7.CA SE: 18,28

8.SW HL: 25,30,31

9.SW NY: DNS

10.SW

11.SW

12.SW

13.CA

14.MW

15.SW

16.SO

17.SW

18.SE

19.MW

20.NW

21.SO

22.NW

23.MW

24.NW

25.HL

26.NE

27.MW

28.SE

29.SO

30.HL

31.HL

I don’t think having a 4:03 and 4:07 miler within 10 seconds of you in automatic evidence that your time invalid.

Not invalid!

Just means that if Nico and German (or Ritz!) were also in this race, they would be even faster.

Nico ran 13:24 at 18 years old. I don't know the birthdays of his brothers or the Sahlmans but if they are older for their grades than Nico, they could run that fast in HS. They could also run 8:25 for 3200.

Cross country should have hills and a variety of surfaces, not just a downhill hard-packed grass course to generate fast times. Morlely Field, Balboa Park is a true XC course, and FL (now Eastbay) is the true national championships with a storied history.

If you are referring to Hunt Park, Balboa is a much more hard packed surface. And the start and finish line are next to each other at Hunt Park with a few feet of drop from start to finish over 5000 meters. There is a nice climb past 2 miles.

Hunt Park has a wonderful soft surface as compared to most cross country course that are hard.

Legacy preference is great wrote:

If you are referring to Hunt Park, Balboa is a much more hard packed surface. And the start and finish line are next to each other at Hunt Park with a few feet of drop from start to finish over 5000 meters. There is a nice climb past 2 miles.

It's amazing how many people will say Hunt Park is totally flat like a track, then others say it has some good hills. Some say they steam roll the surface so it's like a fuzzy fast track, others say it's soft and even had mud. Some say its a perfect 5000 meters and most with a grain of common sense doubt that. So what is it really?

I was there last year and this year. The surface is a golf course fairway. So if you play golf, you know what that is. It is very true but is is nice and soft. They rolled it to eliminate any small bumps that pop up from gophers. You can map it to see the hills. I think the largest hill is about 40 feet. Our GPS watches registered from 3.11-3.14 over the warmup and race both years. You have commented so much on these threads for somebody who has no knowledge of the course.

I looked at one of our Strava records. Low pt was 603 and high pt was 654. So about 51 feet.

Hutchins Rules the World wrote:

I was there last year and this year. The surface is a golf course fairway. So if you play golf, you know what that is. It is very true but is is nice and soft. They rolled it to eliminate any small bumps that pop up from gophers. You can map it to see the hills. I think the largest hill is about 40 feet. Our GPS watches registered from 3.11-3.14 over the warmup and race both years. You have commented so much on these threads for somebody who has no knowledge of the course.

Yes! Trying to get the facts on the course. It's amazing how hard that is and how upset people get over basic facts.

Look at Kole Mathison's strava. He ran the course on his cooldown at 3.13 miles and 603 to 654 feet.