trirunner74 wrote:
have we forgot his club team left a few months ago as well? maybe it wasn’t the fact that the team was full of snobs but rather there may be a problem elsewhere...
Ah yes, remember a few months ago when another group coached by Tom in the Boulder area decided to fire him as well?
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10405325coachcommentsnicely wrote:
As always it is better to say nothing if you do not know anything about the situation. Your ignorance is showing. Go educate yourself on the subject and then come back with something worth while. No one is obligated to answer your questions when the answers can be found without any effort to look for.
Actually, the answers to my questions are available only from the Schwartz family. If they could be ascertained, as you claim, without any effort, you'd know the answers. To review, my questions are these:
1. Why did you move?
In fact, why would anyone move for to coach remotely. Did they move to Virginia when the star pupil was at Loudon Valley? They apparently don't need to be there now even though Joan Hunter is supposedly implementing a Tinman plan at the school. It's via the internet. It can be done from another continent.
Did JS move to Kenya? Now, you may point out he doesn't have any actual, paying Kenyan clients. True though that may be, here's what didn't happen: The Wizard quits his day job and goes to Iten. Eventually, he realizes nobody there wants his services, especially not if they have to pay. He gets all torqued off about moving there. Again, not what happened. He stayed put and kept his job. I agree that JS is a coaching clown, but business-wise this lack of move is genius.
2. Why do you consider the move to be a hardship?
The business is online. This much is clear even to those of us who are being introduced to the whole saga via this thread. Did your latest high school prodigy ditch you and stop paying because he wants to be remotely coached from Idaho? Do teenagers around the country refuse to do business with the Tinman since he became involved with this Boulder gang? The crowd on the Board seems to think that's actually good advertising for the amateur clientele - and unlike me, many of them are aware of the group's social media presence.
3. Why don't you (I don't mean your husband) provide some financial support for yourself and your offspring?
Is the answer to this also available with no effort at all? Do you claim she does in fact have a job and that there is a website that makes that clear? Maybe this is true. If so, it really makes one wonder what the beef is. If she does, in fact, work in Boulder, is it a boon they moved, or did she make more back in Idaho? What information outlet answers this?
I am glad my ignorance comes through. I'm not one of those who was already familiar with Tinman, TME, nor Tinman's wife. I don't follow any of the above on YouTube nor any social media. It would be much worse if I came across as a fan and you accused me of such.
Nevertheless, you're 0 for 3 on my questions.
"You can't quit because you're fired!" Jones, Troop, Hudson, Tinman... he wouldn't be the first good coach to lose interest in working with Boulder's garden variety flotsam and jetsam, and yes half of TME is exactly that. http://img.picturequotes.com/2/55/54333/if-any-of-you-need-anything-at-all-too-bad-deal-with-your-problems-yourselves-like-adults-quote-1.jpg
iykykyk wrote:
trirunner74 wrote:
have we forgot his club team left a few months ago as well? maybe it wasn’t the fact that the team was full of snobs but rather there may be a problem elsewhere...
Ah yes, remember a few months ago when another group coached by Tom in the Boulder area decided to fire him as well?
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10405325
Lol Cringeman Elite is getting roasted in their Instagram comments
From what I remember, they disbanded because they were told it was basically a JV version of Tinman elite and that they could work their way up to be on the real team, but later found out that wasn’t the case. I’m guessing the guys told Tom that they changed their minds or something and that probably upset the club runners. Sounds plausible with the rest of their doucheyness
Nope, wasn’t the case. But thanks for playing.
Your comment is right on point!
xc college boi wrote:
From what I remember, they disbanded because they were told it was basically a JV version of Tinman elite and that they could work their way up to be on the real team, but later found out that wasn’t the case. I’m guessing the guys told Tom that they changed their minds or something and that probably upset the club runners. Sounds plausible with the rest of their doucheyness
Or was it was not getting training for multiple months and still being charged $200 a month. Making runners drive 20-30 minutes for workouts instead of coming to them for no reason. Simple copy/pasting training without any consideration for what individual things the runner needs aka a cookie cutter plan or system. Anti masking/Covid conspiracies plainly out in public.
rojo wrote:
Zante wrote:
I don't think Tinman's training gets the job done for taking that next leap past college or club-level training.
That's not the way the coaching works. If you understand the human body, you can coach period.
I have to disagree with this statement in general. Coaching athletes particularly athletes at an elite level is very psychological. How you relate and motivate is at least as important if not more than understanding human physiology.
I came to know Tom a little a couple of years ago and I like him as a fellow coach. I don’t really know how he is with his athletes but athletes leaving, getting poached, etc. at this level is all part of the deal. I think Tom is aware of that.
iykykyk wrote:
xc college boi wrote:
From what I remember, they disbanded because they were told it was basically a JV version of Tinman elite and that they could work their way up to be on the real team, but later found out that wasn’t the case. I’m guessing the guys told Tom that they changed their minds or something and that probably upset the club runners. Sounds plausible with the rest of their doucheyness
Or was it was not getting training for multiple months and still being charged $200 a month. Making runners drive 20-30 minutes for workouts instead of coming to them for no reason. Simple copy/pasting training without any consideration for what individual things the runner needs aka a cookie cutter plan or system. Anti masking/Covid conspiracies plainly out in public.
I like when he gave me 4x5mins every Tuesday for 3 weeks. Then on the 4th Tuesday he asked what my training had been the prior 3 weeks, since he hadn't filled out my FinalSurge in a month.
That’s a problem with many elite famous online coaches. They get really well known and then have too many athletes they’re coaching online so it’s a lot of copy paste and NOT much attention to how the athlete is doing/progressing. Some of them push it down (the online coaching service) to the elites being coached by the famous coach to take it over and do some online training plans for the masses. Once this happens, what the masses receive online via finalSurge and the like is usually garbage. Like you think the aspiring elite runner being coached by the famous coach and living in Boulder, barely able to put food on the table etc, is going to give two sh*ts about private messaging Joe Blow to get Joe Blow’s training in order each week so he’s ready to break 3:30 and qualify for Boston? They can kind of pretend to care if they have fifteen or fewer others to coach and update plans for each week
So is it pretty obvious that Parsons is the “bad influence”? That would certainly line up with everything I’ve ever heard about the guy.
He did a podcast that dropped on Sweat Elite (not a great news source, I know, but this was just an interview) a while ago, and the guy sounded like he considers himself god’s MF gift to the world. He ranted about being in a “meditative state” for 4-12 hours of his day because he noticed “how his friend smiled” or “the way a light looked”. My god. He’s made some gross comments about relationships or hookups on other podcasts that made my skin crawl. Not the kind of thing I’d want my son aspiring to.
It is almost as if the guys pride themselves on their lack of work ethic? Like, they realize that they are not doing the volume OR the intensity of any other group, and on top of that, it sounds like they eat and drink garbage and don’t do the little things, all the while desperately craving the spotlight from 14 year old xc boys. I just don’t get where the ego comes from. Each guy in the group finds the hairstyle that has ended the most recently to embrace as their own, and the gross trendy dangly earrings to match.
I’m gonna be real boomer here but it really makes you miss the guys (and root for the guys) who are the more silent grinder-types. Lol it’s almost like Joe Klecker wants none of the spotlight at al but is forced in, and his results speak for themselves.
Tinman has gone through some serious health issues these past few years as well. No idea where he is on this, but from what I understand he never let that get in the way of his coaching. TME looking worse & worse...
all about the benjamins wrote:
Tinman has gone through some serious health issues these past few years as well. No idea where he is on this, but from what I understand he never let that get in the way of his coaching. TME looking worse & worse...
Living in areas where covid case rate is high isn’t so good then
while purists on here might find it annoying, i think the model of selling merch and doing youtube videos is totally legit and the only way a lot of semi-elites are gonna be able to support themselves. it's easy to say "tinman owns his name," but there are tons of high schoolers who only know the name "tinman" because of work these struggling second-tier pros put into building a brand.
i really dont have an issue with tinman as a group. i've just found it ridiculous that drew hunter, one of the greatest of all time young prospects, has been training with this second-tier crew.
For a team that has a heavy social media presence their SILENCE the last two days has spoken VOLUMES. None of this "focused on the Drake Relays" baloney. They've all raced like garbage so they obviously have plenty of time to post something. Again, they've dominated the social media airwaves but NOW the whole team goes zero-dark-thirty? They will post a statement within the next 48 hours to try and make it sound like they are the victim in all of this.
This is not even remotely interesting. So a bunch of guys decided to not be coached by some guy. Where is the story? This appears to be a non-story. As far as Drew Hunter is concerned he is not even a great runner. He will be 24 later this year and it appears he has peaked. There is no shame in that but he does not appear to be one of the great talents out there. If anything he is likely to have a running career like Eric Jenkins, pretty good but not anything special for the elite category.
I don't think Hunter has peaked. I think he needs better training, and better training partners. I'll say this, making the world championship team the way he did it is not legit. He placed fifth, with Lomong opting for the 10k (and not having the standard) and Kincaid not having the standard. But I think he still has room for improvement and potential. His training partners are just not good enough. Tinman Elite is a great brand, but B-tier pro group.
I think there have been a lot of changes already as well besides coaching. Some people pointed out before, but Reed was the only one who ran as Adidas / Tinman Elite at Drake Relays. Parsons and Gusman ran under Adidas, Jeff Thies ran unattached.
Seems like a crappy situation all around seems like Hunter has too many birds chirping in his ear and can't make his own decision with all these influences. Those people are to blame.
iykykyk wrote:
xc college boi wrote:
From what I remember, they disbanded because they were told it was basically a JV version of Tinman elite and that they could work their way up to be on the real team, but later found out that wasn’t the case. I’m guessing the guys told Tom that they changed their minds or something and that probably upset the club runners. Sounds plausible with the rest of their doucheyness
Or was it was not getting training for multiple months and still being charged $200 a month. Making runners drive 20-30 minutes for workouts instead of coming to them for no reason. Simple copy/pasting training without any consideration for what individual things the runner needs aka a cookie cutter plan or system. Anti masking/Covid conspiracies plainly out in public.
really? yikes
