Scoopmeister wrote:
So many people have come up with "facts" about Canova and nothing came of it.
Let's see this time.
By the way, my basement is flooded so I can't go there.
Sorry about your mom's basement.
I know you're a Mr C 'stan' (you might need to Google that one) but this is pukka stuff. Like good foreplay, let's go 'pole pole' and then you'll enjoy the full intensity of the mind-blowing climax I'm gonna give you, geezer.[/quote]
Thanks. It's my own though.
And I am not a Canova "stan".
I wait your "facts" coming "pole pole", and your increasing intensity of the mind-blower climax you gonna give to everybody.
I'm really curious to see till where the invention of somebody can arrive. Maybe in the future you can write a scenography about my "crimes" in athletics.
For mental illness there is no limit (Abraham ? Two athletes dead ? What imagination !).
protectors of cheats wrote:
Why do the protectors of East African dopers even try any longer to give half azz reasons as to why they should be faster than others? It doesn't take a genius to figure out how they are achieving this and these doper protectors are only coming across as creepy psychopaths.
I don't think they realize there's not many they are fooling any longer.
In fairness, the talent pool is huge. The standard of the talent is incredible. But you are right, at all levels, doping is rife in Kenya. And some of the high profile 'coaches' need to be held to account...
Scoopmeister wrote:
protectors of cheats wrote:
Why do the protectors of East African dopers even try any longer to give half azz reasons as to why they should be faster than others? It doesn't take a genius to figure out how they are achieving this and these doper protectors are only coming across as creepy psychopaths.
I don't think they realize there's not many they are fooling any longer.
In fairness, the talent pool is huge. The standard of the talent is incredible. But you are right, at all levels, doping is rife in Kenya. And some of the high profile 'coaches' need to be held to account...
Better than Ethiopians or about the same?
Renato Canova wrote:
I wait your "facts" coming "pole pole", and your increasing intensity of the mind-blower climax you gonna give to everybody.
I'm really curious to see till where the invention of somebody can arrive. Maybe in the future you can write a scenography about my "crimes" in athletics.
For mental illness there is no limit (Abraham ? Two athletes dead ? What imagination !).
Apologies for the delay in replying: I've been sunbathing with my beautiful wife, on our yacht, looking at the silver sands of Diane Beach. It really is stunning at his time of the year. You should try it, Mr C.
Anyway, you re a tad confused: only one person dead. Two athletes suspended from your group, following that death. 'Abraham' was the dead man's nickname. He took his nickname from his brother (a former runner). But let's park, 'Abraham' for now (I'll reveal his real name soon enough); like I said, let's peel the onion, pole pole.
So, Mr C, please elucidate: you posted that you'd spoken with convicted dopers who told you they only "started to look at doping when they were no more able to achieve the same previous results, or after some injury for cutting the period of recovery. This means that their best PB were clean, and doping didn't help them to reach their best." Who exactly did you speak to? Are we to believe they revealed their deepest, darkest secrets to you, so you could prove that doping doesn't work on Kenyans, even those that have had your 'proper' training?
Deal with with this point first, Mr C (after all, it's a big claim you have made and needs some substantial proof, if we are to take you seriously).
Don't worry about, 'Abraham'/Noah, we will get around to him soon enough, along with lots more topical facts...
Inquiring minds want to know wrote:
Scoopmeister wrote:
In fairness, the talent pool is huge. The standard of the talent is incredible. But you are right, at all levels, doping is rife in Kenya. And some of the high profile 'coaches' need to be held to account...
Better than Ethiopians or about the same?
Sorry, I have no direct experience with Ethiopian runners. so can't comment, with any credibility.
Sorry, I have no direct experience with Ethiopian runners. so can't comment, with any credibility.[/quote]
Apologies for the lower case 's': my wife is demanding I join her in the boudoir xxx
Scoopmeister wrote:
Inquiring minds want to know wrote:
Better than Ethiopians or about the same?
Sorry, I have no direct experience with Ethiopian runners. so can't comment, with any credibility.
That's okay - I'm sure there must be a few Ethiopian running experts who could chime in. I know they're Kenya's biggest rivals.
Scoopmeister wrote:
Sorry, I have no direct experience with Ethiopian runners. so can't comment, with any credibility.
Apologies for the lower case 's': my wife is demanding I join her in the boudoir xxx[/quote]
Don't wait up, I could be some time...
Doped to the Max wrote:
So, you don't think those heavy hitters are any big deal?
I think they are too few, to justify making sweeping generalizations about all top Kenyans.
Doped to the Max wrote:
Do you have a better way with dopers who don't want to reveal the specifics of their programs?
There is no good way with individual examples.
No I didn't. Now that you bring it up, I don't see how it is relevant.
Coevett wrote:
You've forgotten the post I made recently which pointed out that four of the top 21 ranked Kenyan 800m runners from 2016 have now been busted, and one other (Riotich) was sent home in disgrace from Rio after his coach pi$$ed for him.
We don't find a large percent. In any case, busts are just proof of faith.
Coevett wrote:
We find a large percentage of the busts being elites.
It seemed to make sense after observing the best performers in non-African countries are often imported from Africa. I wouldn't make the same call when looking for trends of doping.
Lets Tell It Like It Is wrote:
I believe our esteemed statistician rekrunner groups transplants to their native country when he did his EPO-performance thread.
I didn't say you did, but that it is done. I explained in detail exactly where my numbers came from -- I don't see how anyone possessing a minimum of intelligence could have been misled, at least not by me.
casual obsever wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
It's funny when we look at East African performances, and the big breakthroughs in the 1990s, the technique used is to compare their 3% gains against the previous era, and this is used to "prove" the 3% benefit, or the 1:00 benefit, that scientists predict.
Straw man discussion... I never did that.
rekrunner wrote:
But when we use the same technique for non-Africans, and we come up with small figures, like 0.3%-0.8%, this is considered misleading.
Correct - as has been pointed out here, and proven, several times. Since you can't defend that nonsense of yours, you build a couple of straw men. Same old, same old.
rekrunner wrote:
It looks like you are arguing that the natural limit for non-Africans for 10K is truly around 27:44-28:08,...
Straw man discussion as per usual... I never did that.
Yes I had to change my mind about what I thought the CAS didn't say.
casual obsever wrote:
BTW, both could have read the CAS decision instead of embarrassing themselves, which clearly states that Jeptoo had also blood-doped before Boston 2014.
These details generally don't interest me. I'm more interested in causes of performance. I already knew why she ran fast in Boston, and that she (or her husband) believed she needed to dope.
Doped to the Max wrote:
Yep...I don't why rekrunner, in particular, doesn't read more of these publicly available CAS hearings - he could learn a lot.
Page #11, paragraph 50 from the CAS decision: "The joint report of the Expert Panel states that each of the three experts had evaluated the data individually and delivered an independent initial review and concluded that the blood parameters measured in sample 4 (collected in 17 April 2014) were "compatible with exogenous erythropoietin stimulation. other pathological conditions ..... are quite unlikely."
Also noted was the Expert Panel's joint opinion was confirmed by Dr. Yorck Olaf Schumacher.
The specifics on her Hgb, RETs, off-scores, etc. are on page #28:
Doped to the Max wrote:
Yep...I don't why rekrunner, in particular, doesn't read more of these publicly available CAS hearings - he could learn a lot.
Page #11, paragraph 50 from the CAS decision: "The joint report of the Expert Panel states that each of the three experts had evaluated the data individually and delivered an independent initial review and concluded that the blood parameters measured in sample 4 (collected in 17 April 2014) were "compatible with exogenous erythropoietin stimulation. other pathological conditions ..... are quite unlikely."
Also noted was the Expert Panel's joint opinion was confirmed by Dr. Yorck Olaf Schumacher.
The specifics on her Hgb, RETs, off-scores, etc. are on page #28:
https://www.twobirds.com/~/media/pdfs/news/cas-2015a3979--iaaf-v-ak--jeptoo.pdf?la=en
Rets of 2.5% and Hgb of 16.6 are not normal, and then there was a fake medical report (I think from a Kenyan hospital) to use epo as a TUE. See the hgb variation too. To quote mindweak "lolz."
rekrunner wrote:
It seemed to make sense after observing the best performers in non-African countries are often imported from Africa.
I wouldn't make the same call when looking for trends of doping.
But wasn't your "A closer look at EPO-era performances" thread essentially looking for "trends of doping" or why did you do the analysis in the first place?
rekrunner wrote:
We don't find a large percent. In any case, busts are just proof of faith.
Proof that dopers on occasion screw up, get careless, aren't current on glow times, answer the door, can't afford the best lawyers to bail them out, can't get protection.
FTFY
Coevett wrote:
Coevett wrote:
[quote]rekrunner wrote:
When we look at the recent busts, we find very few elite runners, like Kiprop, Erupe, Kisorio, Jebet, Jeptoo, and Sumgong. This is a handful of men and a handful of women in the whole history of time. We find small ratios like 2 in the top 100, or 3 in the top 30, or 2 in the top 16, leaving us with 98 in the top 100, 27 in the top 30, and 14 of the top 16 candidates potentially clean and natural. In a pool of hundreds and thousands of elites over time, I find it premature and prejudiced to project these handful of exceptions onto all Kenyan results.
You've gone completely insane here. 'A handful of men and a handful of women in the whole history of time'. LOL!
We don't find 'very few elites'. We find a large percentage of the busts being elites. In fact, if like El K you're claiming that Kenya has thousands of elites, then all of the doping busts have been elites, only the ones likely to be tested.
Testing standards have been raised just a fraction this year and 3 or 4 olympic gold medalists have been busted, and you think this is statistically unimportant?
Get back to work.
LOL no