Official 2018 Pre Classic Discussion Thread

That kid is fast wrote:

Jakob certainly isn't cowed by anyone.

I agree Murphy is progressing nicely after what he's been through. Hopefully the Nike folks don't go overboard with distance work with him. He's a guy with speed.

Centro is coming along. He'll be a medal contender yet again next season.

INGEBRIGTSEN Ingebrigtsen just looks like a natural. So smooth. Insane talent. Absolutely insane.

Great run by Murphy, didn't know he had that kind of mile speed in him.

An encouraging result by Centro. I think he is targeting the later part of the season for some faster times, so this certainly much better than any of his other races this season.

poorsilas wrote:

Silas Kiplagat has to be one of the greatest fall-offs of recent track history.

In 2014 he was a 3:27 man.

In 2018 he is bringing up the rear 15 seconds behind the winner.

What happened to him?

used to always come 2nd to kiprop. probly a doper who is now spooked. we used to think kiprop's sporadic performances were just him 'toying around' and being tactically stupid. in retrospect, the inconsistencies probly had more to do with cycling off/on peds :/

Go back and watch Walker, Snell, Ryun, Dixon, Bayi, Coe, Ovett, Cram, et. al. They fought you to the finish.

I didn't see that in Centro.

Good performances from Centro and Murphy in that they are coming back from injury. Ingebrigtsen at just 17 1/2 started out in the very back of the field as it got out pretty quick in just under 56 for the pacer, a good decision, because the field slowed down the next two laps at maybe 59/58, and he moved right up the field and was not in contention for the win but really acquitted himself well in this field and has already run a second faster than Webb ran at 18 in this meet. 3:52 already and the 1500m is his target event. I thought Tefera was going to get Cheruiyot for awhile but the latter had plenty left. This again shows how difficult Webb's 3:46.91 is, one guy in the field under 3:50. Something not quite right with Manangoi? When I saw that they'd just traveled 22 hours to get here, that 3:46-47 goal didn't seem like it was going to happen.

And great race from Noah Lyles. He got out very well, put pressure on Makwala and thus the injury, and then his form was terrific on the home stretch. Could Lyles also run sub 44 right now? I think he could. And he said that he wasn't even that close to his target shape for this year. He might go 19.5 at USA's in hot weather.

vivalarepublica wrote:

That kid is fast wrote:

Jakob certainly isn't cowed by anyone.

I agree Murphy is progressing nicely after what he's been through. Hopefully the Nike folks don't go overboard with distance work with him. He's a guy with speed.

Centro is coming along. He'll be a medal contender yet again next season.

INGEBRIGTSEN Ingebrigtsen just looks like a natural. So smooth. Insane talent. Absolutely insane.

Great run by Murphy, didn't know he had that kind of mile speed in him.

An encouraging result by Centro. I think he is targeting the later part of the season for some faster times, so this certainly much better than any of his other races this season.

Yup; He's already run 3:51 at, at most 22 yrs old.

vivalarepublica wrote:

That kid is fast wrote:

Jakob certainly isn't cowed by anyone.

I agree Murphy is progressing nicely after what he's been through. Hopefully the Nike folks don't go overboard with distance work with him. He's a guy with speed.

Centro is coming along. He'll be a medal contender yet again next season.

INGEBRIGTSEN Ingebrigtsen just looks like a natural. So smooth. Insane talent. Absolutely insane.

Great run by Murphy, didn't know he had that kind of mile speed in him.

An encouraging result by Centro. I think he is targeting the later part of the season for some faster times, so this certainly much better than any of his other races this season.

Murphy has run 3:51.9, so he's not at his best but he's getting there. I feel he's a legit threat to run 1:42 flat or faster - without doping like most of the PC darlings have been allowed to for decades.

Ingebrigsten likely ran the fastest mile by anyone under 18, we simply can't count times posted by E. Africans when it comes to juniors. Too much age cheating, no matter how good they may be naturally. Yes, Ingebrigsten is smooth. I still think his best event is going to be the 5k.

Centro is doing alright. He's nowhere near sharp and there are no championship races this year. He and Murphy can work on through and point for next year.

its Egun wrote:

Go back and watch Walker, Snell, Ryun, Dixon, Bayi, Coe, Ovett, Cram, et. al. They fought you to the finish.

I didn't see that in Centro.

Have you watched multiple medal-winning performances? I think he fought to the finish in those.

vivalarepublica wrote:

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

Young Ingebrigsten though, 3:52.28!! Wow that's gotta be the performance of the race

Pretty sure that is a U18 record. #11 all time for U20 (a list that probably has some inaccurate ages).

Looks like it. Pretty sure the youngest person to ever run faster was Jim Ryun, 3:51.3 at age 19. Shame it won't count for a WYR though because Jakob turns 18 this year.

Oops, had no clue Murphy had already run that time in the mile. I wonder what he could run if he focused on that as his main event.

vivalarepublica wrote:

Shelby Houlihan has arrived.

Kind of shocking that Houlihan suddenly broke 4 minutes. She's having a great year so far, actually dominant in the USA.

vivalarepublica wrote:

Great run by Murphy, didn't know he had that kind of mile speed in him.

He ran 3:51 in this race last year...

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

vivalarepublica wrote:

Pretty sure that is a U18 record. #11 all time for U20 (a list that probably has some inaccurate ages).

Looks like it. Pretty sure the youngest person to ever run faster was Jim Ryun, 3:51.3 at age 19. Shame it won't count for a WYR though because Jakob turns 18 this year.

IAAF keeps all time junior lists. This time puts him at #11 all time on that list. The only non-Kenyans to run faster are Ryun and Hamza Driouch (who was seems to have disappeared after his ban). I think it's too speculative to say all the Kenyans in front of them are age cheats, because we all know that Kenyans are capable of running those times as juniors.

vivalarepublica wrote:

Oops, had no clue Murphy had already run that time in the mile. I wonder what he could run if he focused on that as his main event.

It was looking to be his main event senior year in college where he dominated NCAAs. Then he failed to qualify for the trials so he moved down to the 8

Did the math just for kicks, turns out I was wrong. Here are the youngest people ever to run faster with their ages first:

(17, ' 274 3:50.90 Hamza Driouch QAT 16.11.94 8 Oslo 07.06.2012')

(18, ' 128 3:49.77 Caleb Ndiku KEN 09.10.92 5rA Eugene 04.06.2011')

(18, ' 178 3:50.25 Alex Kipchirchir KEN 26.11.84 2 Rieti 07.09.2003')

(18, ' 198 3:50.39 James Kwalia KEN 12.06.84 1rA Hengelo 01.06.2003')

(18, ' 203 3:50.41 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2 Nice 16.07.1997')

(18, ' 265 3:50.83 Nicholas Kiptanui Kemboi KEN 18.12.89 6 Oslo 06.06.2008')

(19, ' 152 3:50.00 Caleb Ndiku KEN 09.10.92 2 Oslo 07.06.2012')

(19, ' 172 3:50.21 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 03.12.92 3 Eugene 02.06.2012')

(19, ' 199 3:50.40 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 3 London 30.07.2004')

(19, ' 209 3:50.49 Wilfred Oanda Kirochi KEN 12.12.69 2 Oslo 01.07.1989')

(19, ' 244 3:50.69 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05.06.83 5 Roma 12.07.2002')

(19, ' 257 3:50.79 Caleb Ndiku KEN 09.10.92 5 Eugene 02.06.2012')

(19, ' 321 3:51.3 Jim Ryun USA 29.04.47 1 Berkeley 17.07.1966')

(19, ' 373 3:51.68 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05.06.83 2 London 23.08.2002')

(19, ' 47 3:48.50 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Eugene 07.06.2009')

(19, ' 82 3:49.29 William Biwott Tanui KEN 05.03.90 2 Oslo 03.07.2009')

(19, ' 84 3:49.34 Benjamin Kipkurui KEN 28.12.80 3 Bruxelles 25.08.2000')

(20, ' 106 3:49.56 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Oslo 04.06.2010')

(20, ' 119 3:49.72 Deresse Mekonnen ETH 20.10.87 3 Oslo 06.06.2008')

(20, ' 140 3:49.86 Homiyu Tesfaye GER 23.06.93 3 Oslo 11.06.2014')

(20, ' 149 3:49.95 Steve Cram GBR 14.10.60 3 Zürich 19.08.1981')

(20, ' 158 3:50.07 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 03.12.92 2 London 27.07.2013')

(20, ' 196 3:50.38 Steve Cram GBR 14.10.60 6 Oslo 11.07.1981')

(20, ' 199 3:50.40 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 03.12.92 4 Eugene 01.06.2013')

(20, ' 199 3:50.40 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05.06.83 2 London 08.08.2003')

(20, ' 2 3:43.40 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2 Roma 07.07.1999')

(20, ' 208 3:50.46 Caleb Ndiku KEN 09.10.92 6 Eugene 01.06.2013')

(20, ' 215 3:50.53 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 03.12.92 1 Oslo 13.06.2013')

(20, ' 251 3:50.74 Mekonnen Gebremedhin ETH 11.10.88 4 Oslo 03.07.2009')

(20, ' 253 3:50.75 William Biwott Tanui KEN 05.03.90 4 Oslo 04.06.2010')

(20, ' 275 3:50.91 Alex Kipchirchir KEN 26.11.84 1 Eugene 04.06.2005')

(20, ' 302 3:51.1 Jim Ryun USA 29.04.47 1 Bakersfield 23.06.1967')

(20, ' 348 3:51.50 Enock Koech KEN 04.04.81 8 Roma 29.06.2001')

(20, ' 366 3:51.62 Adil Kaouch MAR 01.01.79 3 London 07.08.1999')

(20, ' 366 3:51.62 Augustine Choge KEN 21.01.87 2 Oslo 15.06.2007')

(20, ' 407 3:51.94 Ali Hakimi TUN 24.04.76 5 Oslo 05.07.1996')

(20, ' 441 3:52.09 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 1 Eugene 30.05.1999')

(20, ' 46 3:48.49 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen KEN 27.11.84 3 Oslo 29.07.2005')

(20, ' 478 3:52.24 Ryan Gregson AUS 26.04.90 5 London 14.08.2010')

(20, ' 54 3:48.69 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 2 Zürich 16.08.1995')

(20, ' 63 3:48.94 Vénuste Niyongabo BDI 09.12.73 1 Oslo 22.07.1994')

vivalarepublica wrote:

Oops, had no clue Murphy had already run that time in the mile. I wonder what he could run if he focused on that as his main event.

He'll be sub 3:50 eventually - he was very undertrained in high school. He's coming off injury and surgery. He'll be a medal threat at the 800 (again) and 1500 by next season.

Jakob will move to the 5k eventually - if there's an actual clean up of the drug abuse by Africans.

Good point.

Maybe it's the millennial thing; if I can't win the video game I'll shut it down....

Tell you what, I ran with his father with NYAC and that guy would tackle you if he had to.

Just to be more complete here's the same list but sorted by the number of days old (second number) also

(17, 204, ' 274 3:50.90 Hamza Driouch QAT 16.11.94 8 Oslo 07.06.2012')

(18, 171, ' 265 3:50.83 Nicholas Kiptanui Kemboi KEN 18.12.89 6 Oslo 06.06.2008')

(18, 238, ' 128 3:49.77 Caleb Ndiku KEN 09.10.92 5rA Eugene 04.06.2011')

(18, 256, ' 203 3:50.41 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2 Nice 16.07.1997')

(18, 285, ' 178 3:50.25 Alex Kipchirchir KEN 26.11.84 2 Rieti 07.09.2003')

(18, 354, ' 198 3:50.39 James Kwalia KEN 12.06.84 1rA Hengelo 01.06.2003')

(19, 37, ' 244 3:50.69 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05.06.83 5 Roma 12.07.2002')

(19, 79, ' 321 3:51.3 Jim Ryun USA 29.04.47 1 Berkeley 17.07.1966')

(19, 79, ' 373 3:51.68 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05.06.83 2 London 23.08.2002')

(19, 120, ' 82 3:49.29 William Biwott Tanui KEN 05.03.90 2 Oslo 03.07.2009')

(19, 182, ' 172 3:50.21 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 03.12.92 3 Eugene 02.06.2012')

(19, 201, ' 209 3:50.49 Wilfred Oanda Kirochi KEN 12.12.69 2 Oslo 01.07.1989')

(19, 237, ' 257 3:50.79 Caleb Ndiku KEN 09.10.92 5 Eugene 02.06.2012')

(19, 241, ' 84 3:49.34 Benjamin Kipkurui KEN 28.12.80 3 Bruxelles 25.08.2000')

(19, 242, ' 152 3:50.00 Caleb Ndiku KEN 09.10.92 2 Oslo 07.06.2012')

(19, 268, ' 199 3:50.40 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 3 London 30.07.2004')

(19, 342, ' 47 3:48.50 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Eugene 07.06.2009')

(20, 55, ' 302 3:51.1 Jim Ryun USA 29.04.47 1 Bakersfield 23.06.1967')

(20, 64, ' 199 3:50.40 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05.06.83 2 London 08.08.2003')

(20, 72, ' 407 3:51.94 Ali Hakimi TUN 24.04.76 5 Oslo 05.07.1996')

(20, 86, ' 348 3:51.50 Enock Koech KEN 04.04.81 8 Roma 29.06.2001')

(20, 91, ' 253 3:50.75 William Biwott Tanui KEN 05.03.90 4 Oslo 04.06.2010')

(20, 110, ' 478 3:52.24 Ryan Gregson AUS 26.04.90 5 London 14.08.2010')

(20, 145, ' 366 3:51.62 Augustine Choge KEN 21.01.87 2 Oslo 15.06.2007')

(20, 180, ' 199 3:50.40 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 03.12.92 4 Eugene 01.06.2013')

(20, 190, ' 275 3:50.91 Alex Kipchirchir KEN 26.11.84 1 Eugene 04.06.2005')

(20, 192, ' 215 3:50.53 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 03.12.92 1 Oslo 13.06.2013')

(20, 209, ' 441 3:52.09 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 1 Eugene 30.05.1999')

(20, 218, ' 366 3:51.62 Adil Kaouch MAR 01.01.79 3 London 07.08.1999')

(20, 225, ' 63 3:48.94 Vénuste Niyongabo BDI 09.12.73 1 Oslo 22.07.1994')

(20, 230, ' 119 3:49.72 Deresse Mekonnen ETH 20.10.87 3 Oslo 06.06.2008')

(20, 235, ' 208 3:50.46 Caleb Ndiku KEN 09.10.92 6 Eugene 01.06.2013')

(20, 236, ' 158 3:50.07 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 03.12.92 2 London 27.07.2013')

(20, 244, ' 46 3:48.49 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen KEN 27.11.84 3 Oslo 29.07.2005')

(20, 247, ' 2 3:43.40 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2 Roma 07.07.1999')

(20, 265, ' 251 3:50.74 Mekonnen Gebremedhin ETH 11.10.88 4 Oslo 03.07.2009')

(20, 270, ' 196 3:50.38 Steve Cram GBR 14.10.60 6 Oslo 11.07.1981')

(20, 309, ' 149 3:49.95 Steve Cram GBR 14.10.60 3 Zürich 19.08.1981')

(20, 336, ' 54 3:48.69 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 2 Zürich 16.08.1995')

(20, 339, ' 106 3:49.56 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Oslo 04.06.2010')

(20, 353, ' 140 3:49.86 Homiyu Tesfaye GER 23.06.93 3 Oslo 11.06.2014')

vivalarepublica wrote:

Dijon Gebremustard wrote:

Looks like it. Pretty sure the youngest person to ever run faster was Jim Ryun, 3:51.3 at age 19. Shame it won't count for a WYR though because Jakob turns 18 this year.

IAAF keeps all time junior lists. This time puts him at #11 all time on that list. The only non-Kenyans to run faster are Ryun and Hamza Driouch (who was seems to have disappeared after his ban). I think it's too speculative to say all the Kenyans in front of them are age cheats, because we all know that Kenyans are capable of running those times as juniors.

One can't always go on looks, but the fact is that the only Kenyan junior 1500 monster who even remotely looked like a junior was Kiprop (because he really was a junior).

One of my favorite videos showing African age cheating. The "17 year old" guy in lane 1 is balding and forgot to remove his wedding ring:

It's Egun wrote:

Good point.

Maybe it's the millennial thing; if I can't win the video game I'll shut it down....

Tell you what, I ran with his father with NYAC and that guy would tackle you if he had to.

Maybe Sr should have focused on running instead of tackling then because Centro Jr is beating him 4 medals to 0.