I was so hoping that one of the exhibits would be his bag and all the items in it. I need these questions answered! He missed a perfect opportunity for shameless promotion of products: Nike sunglasses, all his favorite Chapsticks, spf sunblock, Androgel....
#whatsinthebagALBERTO
rojo wrote:
Salazar doesn\'t really explain away the hollowed out book allegation either. People just think he did.
As was the case with the Goucher allegation on Cytomel, Salazar is explaning away the wrong thing. Salazar is explanied away the \'hollwed out book allegation\' by saying he sent nasal spray in a book (and provided some emails showing he was asking some docs about nasal spray at the time) when in fact that\'s not what was alleged.
Here is allegation by Magness made in ProPublica.
ProPublica wrote:Magness then flew to Dusseldorf to meet Rupp prior to the race. Soon after he arrived, Rupp told him he wasn\'t feeling well. Magness called Salazar, who he says told him to expect a package. Two days later, a box arrived at his hotel room. Inside it he found a paperback thriller. Confused, he flipped it open. A section of the pages had been hollowed out to form a compartment into which two pills were taped. \"At that point,\" Magness says, \"my mind was like, this is stuff you see in movies, this is extremely strange.\" He handed the pills to Rupp, who he says promptly swallowed them and laughed off the clandestine packaging as typical Salazar antics. Magness, who had been on the job less than two months, says he never asked what the pills were. At the end of the week, Rupp placed fourth in the 5K in Germany. Neither Salazar nor Rupp responded to questions about the hollowed-out book containing pills.
Salazar explains the hollowed out book by saying the following:
Salazar wrote:
I sent Galen his Nasonex prescription. I put it inside a paperback book.
Well there is one small problem. Nasonex is a nasal spray. Magness specifically says that Salazar sent him pills in a hollowed out book.
Magness says it was pills.
This thus has turned into a he said - she said type argument. Magness says Salazar did one thing, Salazar says it never happened - the only difference is Salazar has cleverly provided documentation that makes it look like his side is totally validated.[/quote]
Rojo, did you read all the emails? Salazar also said on Feb 12 in an email he copied Ian Stewart on \"Ian, is there any chance that Dr. Thing could prescribe a Z pack for Galen? It\'s called Zithromax and is a three day dose pack that works for ten days. It may just be known as Azithromycin in the UK and is taken for ten days. I fedexed some to Galen at the Crown Plaza but it wn\'t get to him until Monday at the earliest. It may not even get thru customs. I laid the tablets out in magazines and labelled the package as business documents.\"
In that same email he later mentions Nasonex and says \"I didn\'t send it because it comes in a small bottle and would be detectable by feel in the fedex envelope. Nasonex is one brand, very expensive, $150 but Galen will pay it if Dr. Thing can prescribe it.\"
A couple of days later on February 14 he tells Ian Stwert \"Galen got his antibiotics today from fedex so he\'s ife on that. I will fedex the nasal corticosteroid to him today...\" Later that day he sends Ian Stewart another email that says \"I just fedexed off the nasal spray. If it gets thru Customs it will get there on Wednesday at the earliest.\" An email to Spencer Barden at UK Athletics on February 15 says \"Hi Spencer, good news, i just checked with Fedex adn galen\'s nasal spray prescription cleared customs.\"
There are two separate email chains that deal with the pills and nasal spray being sent at two different times. I think you are getting confused and combining the two incidents. There is an email where Salazar says on February 12 that he sent tablets hidden in magazines.
I can\'t see how this incident isn\'t fully explained. Are we now going to say it wasn\'t refuted because the article said it was a \"paperback thriller\" that had the pills but emails Salazar sent at the time actually said the pills were hidden in magazines?
TrackCoach wrote:
When there is systematic doping among a large group, you will see a mobile lab and doctors traveling with the team/group.
NOPe. Mobile labs for cyclist working as a team on multi-day tours. Static lab for individual athletes on a running team.
Jeff Albertson wrote:
Put yourselves in the shoes of an elite coach. It seems like all of the NOP accusers would be the most aloof coaches ever.
1. Should we send our athletes to doctors to check hormone levels? No, that's crazy.
2. Should we make sure it's not possible for someone to rub testosterone on us post race? Well, we'll never set any records anyway, so don't bother.
3. Should we apply for TUEs? Only cheaters do that. Either don't be sick or don't get the exception.
4. Should we check for asthma? But you're an elite athlete! No one who has asthma could possibly run for me.
Just run and don't worry about the other stuff. I'm not about the records or making teams. I just love to see athletes improve.
Ok. I'm role playing the world class coach/athlete. I want to win at all coasts. Screw the ethics of sport. I'm going to do everything I possibly can within the rules to win. 1. Lets get those hormone levels checked. 3. Hell ya TUE's. Gotta hit my inhaler 15 times a day through my nose. It's allergy season and I got Bekele coming at me in a couple months. 4. I don't need to check for it. I've had it since I was in Kindergarten.
I'm still struggling with number 2 though. I guess I would be be the elite coach whose athletes get ambushed by those sneaky massage therapist ninja androgel rubbers all the time.
There must be several trolls posting positive things on alberto. It simply is not within the spirit of letsrun to say so many positive things about a person.
The default on letsrun has historically been every single fast runner is 100% a doper (and I have a hotter wife than them).
personally, I think he's guilty. THis is how the Lance thing started. It took a decade to sort it out in the court system.
If the law gets behind this, Alberto is dead to rights in my opinion.
Precious Roy wrote:
But, if you are going to perfect a microdosing program, you certainly would not be emailing a doctor about it and save those emails for all to see. You would do everything 100% underground and destroy everything.
This is raw, unsupported, and unjustified speculation. Salazar may be rightfully paranoid, but he's been demonstrably careless about plenty of things so far (medications and syringes left behind in cars and hotel suites, and in the case of Rupp, a wallet with lots of cash in it). Therefore, it makes no sense for you to pretend to know how his mind operates. Are you a megalomaniac? Probably not, so it's not legitimate to try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who may be, and those personality types can get complacent.
Besides, don't you think he would actually rather have a record of these things somewhere than just destroy them? We've already seen evidence of his meticulous record-keeping going back more than 10 years in some cases,
Precious Roy wrote:
Plus, the experiments were limited to single doses and did not go as far as looking at what would happen if they did a second dose at a later date.
Sure, if you believe what Salazar says about his own "experiments."
Why was Rupp on antibiotics?
I'm interested in what Magness has to say
InDaknow wrote:
I think AS has video on this in case someone calls BS. It was a press conference.
BewareTheMasseur wrote:Definitely the biggest WTF¿¿¡¡ in the document. Hope someone tracks Whetstine down and asks him about it.
Can you elaborate? Would really like to know more about this.
[quote]Herriman wrote:
"Kara Goucher never said she wasn't ever on Cytomel or a patient of Dr. Brown. She simply said that Alberto told her to take Cytomel early in 2011 when didn't have a prescription for it and that allegation stands."
Then at best Kara was trying to mislead everyone.
To say "well, I was on Cytomel and my Dr prescribed it, but on one particular day my prescription hadn't been renewed and AS told me to borrow Galen's". Is a much different story than "AS asked me to take some of Galen's prescription meds."
You see? At best she is totaly misleading everyone if she actually had a prescription for the meds and took them regularly and just didn't have a current prescription that day."
This is very fair.
Since the allegations came out, there was not one second where I thought that Salazar could possibly provide a reasonable explanation for all of these allegations. However, the thoroughness of his response today was actually shocking.
I think people need to look at this with some objectivity. The burden of proof should be on the prosecution, but was instead provided by the accused and in a manner that provides some very serious backing to his testimony. There are signed letters from multiple medical professionals that back up Salazar's testimony in refuting these allegations. Additionally, at a minimum (as the subtext in the quote on the front page currently uses to describe the NOP's actions, as being "at a minimum prescription drug abuse"), it should be clear that the credibility of the accusers is certainly questionable. Even if you were to somehow overlook all of the evidence provided, which include medical documentation, contact with USADA/WADA (the very agencies one running a doping program would likely avoid), and written contact presenting a very different past-private and present-public relationship between the accusers and the accused, it's clear that Magness and the Gouchers both deliberately misled Epstein or the public when they stated their reasons for leaving the project and all the horrible feelings and uneasiness that they felt towards the team and Alberto in the years that they were there. That was shown to be blatantly false and you can't pretend that this has no effect on their credibility when, of all the material that is being contended, this is one area that has indisputably been shown to be a lie. It's not as significant as the allegations themselves, but it does provide a motive and some doubt as to the legitimacy of their claims.
As for the allegations themselves, I think that those are more able to be debated. But I think that Salazar has done enough to vindicate himself. Based on everything that has been presented by both sides, it is far, far more probably that the story that he has presented is more truthful than the story presented by ProPublica. That is my opinion, but I think that if anyone is considering this thing from a neutral position, that this is what the evidence and testimony present.
I'll also say that I definitely did not believe that at first, and now I believe that I was wrong.
TJR25 wrote:
pop_pop! wrote:So, you are ignoring Dr. Brown's false claims to come to your own, false, conclusion.
Good job.
The fact is that the NOP did not abuse the TUE system regardless of whatever diagnosis Dr. Brown gave anyone, and that is half of the argument.
Hey, wait. You are not acknowledging your false claims and just moving on?
We agree NOP did not abuse the TUE system because the TUE system has no method for identifying/sanctioning abuse. Al Sal's many failed TUE attempts as an athlete is a great example.
Trying to be objective wrote:
[quote]Herriman wrote:
"Kara Goucher never said she wasn't ever on Cytomel or a patient of Dr. Brown. She simply said that Alberto told her to take Cytomel early in 2011 when didn't have a prescription for it and that allegation stands."
Then at best Kara was trying to mislead everyone.
To say "well, I was on Cytomel and my Dr prescribed it, but on one particular day my prescription hadn't been renewed and AS told me to borrow Galen's". Is a much different story than "AS asked me to take some of Galen's prescription meds."
You see? At best she is totaly misleading everyone if she actually had a prescription for the meds and took them regularly and just didn't have a current prescription that day."
This is very fair.
Since the allegations came out, there was not one second where I thought that Salazar could possibly provide a reasonable explanation for all of these allegations. However, the thoroughness of his response today was actually shocking.
I think people need to look at this with some objectivity. The burden of proof should be on the prosecution, but was instead provided by the accused and in a manner that provides some very serious backing to his testimony. There are signed letters from multiple medical professionals that back up Salazar's testimony in refuting these allegations. Additionally, at a minimum (as the subtext in the quote on the front page currently uses to describe the NOP's actions, as being "at a minimum prescription drug abuse"), it should be clear that the credibility of the accusers is certainly questionable. Even if you were to somehow overlook all of the evidence provided, which include medical documentation, contact with USADA/WADA (the very agencies one running a doping program would likely avoid), and written contact presenting a very different past-private and present-public relationship between the accusers and the accused, it's clear that Magness and the Gouchers both deliberately misled Epstein or the public when they stated their reasons for leaving the project and all the horrible feelings and uneasiness that they felt towards the team and Alberto in the years that they were there. That was shown to be blatantly false and you can't pretend that this has no effect on their credibility when, of all the material that is being contended, this is one area that has indisputably been shown to be a lie. It's not as significant as the allegations themselves, but it does provide a motive and some doubt as to the legitimacy of their claims.
As for the allegations themselves, I think that those are more able to be debated. But I think that Salazar has done enough to vindicate himself. Based on everything that has been presented by both sides, it is far, far more probably that the story that he has presented is more truthful than the story presented by ProPublica. That is my opinion, but I think that if anyone is considering this thing from a neutral position, that this is what the evidence and testimony present.
I'll also say that I definitely did not believe that at first, and now I believe that I was wrong.
POD
For the ten millionth time wrote: For the ten millionth time, thyroid medication does not require a TUE. It is not a banned substance.
TJR25 wrote: Ok so then what proof does anyone have that the NOP took thyroid meds other than the statements made, by the BBC/propublica and crew?
That's an interesting question. But I don't see what it has to do with whether or not you need a TUE to take thyroid meds. What's the connection.
Let me try to answer your question, I think it has been openly discussed for years. There was an article about Dr. Brown in the WSJ in April 2013. I certainly heard about thyroid meds and their use by NOPsters from Nike runners before that. I think both KG and AYB were open about their thyroid issues years ago.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323550604578412913149043072PS Remember: Thyroid meds are not on the WADA list, and do not require a TUE.
A BONUS: Normal does from Albuterol inhalers are not on the WADA list, either, and thus do not require a TUE.
Rojo is claiming that Salazar's answers don't fully address all of the allegations because some of the details don't match up (e.g., pills were sent in a magazine instead of book, dates of Goucher's Cytomel use). But Salazar has documentation to support his version of events. Magness and Goucher are just going off memory. So to the extent there are still unexplained discrepancies, the more likely explanation is that Magness and Goucher are mistaken; it isn't fair to claim that Salazar hasn't responded to those allegations. He has. I think the burden is back on the accusers to provide some evidence beyond their testimony.
yet another sheep wrote:
Alberto's response was pretty convincing. You know, actual emails and records and all. My respect for Rojo/Letsrun has fallen. A website that is supposedly supportive of the sport has done it a huge disservice by leading a frantic witch hunt in concert with the Daily Mail.
The Champ wrote:
The statement explicitly talks about sending Z-pak (pills).
rojo wrote:(I'm reposting this from a few minutes ago as I had problems with the formatting of the other post).
Here is another example of why it needs to be-read.Salazar doesn't really explain away the hollowed out book allegation either. People just think he did.
As was the case with the Goucher allegation on Cytomel, Salazar is explaning away the wrong thing. Salazar is explanied away the 'hollowed out book allegation' by saying he sent nasal spray in a book (and provided some emails showing he was asking some docs about nasal spray at the time) when in fact that's not what was alleged.
Here is allegation by Magness made in ProPublica.
Salazar explains the hollowed out book by saying the following:
Well there is one huge difference here. Nasonex is a nasal spray. Magness specifically says that Salazar sent him pills in a hollowed out book. Salazar says it was a nasal spray which would be a lot harder to fit into a book.
This thus has turned into a he said - she said type argument. Magness says Salazar did one thing, Salazar says it never happened - the only difference is Salazar has cleverly provided documentation that makes it look like his side is totally validated.
rojo wrote:
Well there is one huge difference here. Nasonex is a nasal spray. Magness specifically says that Salazar sent him pills in a hollowed out book. Salazar says it was a nasal spray which would be a lot harder to fit into a book.
Simple: Steve Magness's memory either confabulated two events or he just outright lied. It is the zpack that was in a magazine and it was a the nasal spray in a hollowed out book. Alberto's evidence corroborate this. This also makes sense when you consider the dimensions of the items and the goal of the packaging to get through customs quicker. Pills would go undetected taped into a magazine but a nasal spray needs to be enclosed in something much bulkier, such as a book.
It's not a he-said, she-said argument. Alberto has email evidence to back up his testimony. Magness has nothing.
I love the phrase, "If you going to the shoot the king, don't miss." Steve Magness appears to have missed badly. He must feel incredibly embarrassed right now. I feel bad for him and I am praying for him.
The Champ wrote:
Trying to be objective wrote:[quote]Herriman wrote:
"Kara Goucher never said she wasn't ever on Cytomel or a patient of Dr. Brown. She simply said that Alberto told her to take Cytomel early in 2011 when didn't have a prescription for it and that allegation stands."
Then at best Kara was trying to mislead everyone.
To say "well, I was on Cytomel and my Dr prescribed it, but on one particular day my prescription hadn't been renewed and AS told me to borrow Galen's". Is a much different story than "AS asked me to take some of Galen's prescription meds."
You see? At best she is totaly misleading everyone if she actually had a prescription for the meds and took them regularly and just didn't have a current prescription that day."
This is very fair.
Since the allegations came out, there was not one second where I thought that Salazar could possibly provide a reasonable explanation for all of these allegations. However, the thoroughness of his response today was actually shocking.
I think people need to look at this with some objectivity. The burden of proof should be on the prosecution, but was instead provided by the accused and in a manner that provides some very serious backing to his testimony. There are signed letters from multiple medical professionals that back up Salazar's testimony in refuting these allegations. Additionally, at a minimum (as the subtext in the quote on the front page currently uses to describe the NOP's actions, as being "at a minimum prescription drug abuse"), it should be clear that the credibility of the accusers is certainly questionable. Even if you were to somehow overlook all of the evidence provided, which include medical documentation, contact with USADA/WADA (the very agencies one running a doping program would likely avoid), and written contact presenting a very different past-private and present-public relationship between the accusers and the accused, it's clear that Magness and the Gouchers both deliberately misled Epstein or the public when they stated their reasons for leaving the project and all the horrible feelings and uneasiness that they felt towards the team and Alberto in the years that they were there. That was shown to be blatantly false and you can't pretend that this has no effect on their credibility when, of all the material that is being contended, this is one area that has indisputably been shown to be a lie. It's not as significant as the allegations themselves, but it does provide a motive and some doubt as to the legitimacy of their claims.
As for the allegations themselves, I think that those are more able to be debated. But I think that Salazar has done enough to vindicate himself. Based on everything that has been presented by both sides, it is far, far more probably that the story that he has presented is more truthful than the story presented by ProPublica. That is my opinion, but I think that if anyone is considering this thing from a neutral position, that this is what the evidence and testimony present.
I'll also say that I definitely did not believe that at first, and now I believe that I was wrong.
POD
Post of the decade.
YAWN!!! @ Freud's PR firm and their numerous defensive posts.
http://www.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/yawn.png
Some good info about Matthew Freud, owner of the PR Firm.
- Freud was married to Rupert Murdoch's daughter, Elisabeth Murdoch.
- Freud had epic battles his father-in-law for years.
- The Freud's --ex-hubby, ex-wife's-- combined net worth was $250 millions pounds less than a year ago.
- Matthew Freud is the great-grandson of Psycho Sigmund Freud.
So, the owner of Freud's is willing to battle with his wife's father who happens to be one of the richest people on earth @ $14B. Freud's has made a huge amount of money player PR savior.
Quoter Of Excellent Posts wrote:
yet another sheep wrote:Alberto's response was pretty convincing. You know, actual emails and records and all. My respect for Rojo/Letsrun has fallen. A website that is supposedly supportive of the sport has done it a huge disservice by leading a frantic witch hunt in concert with the Daily Mail.
0/10 Where's the personal appeal in this?
I know they don't pay you much at the USATF Internet Community Coordinator dungeon, but you need to check the guide they gave you and work much harder at implementing it.
