50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Oh... strength exercises. I do 100 sit ups on the physioball a couple times a week. When not preparing for the marathon, I do 1 set of pull-ups everyday at the park in the middle of my a.m. run. Nothing drastic, 10 or so. I like the extra strength when racing for shorter distances, but the marathon, I drop all upper body exercises as I want the upper body of an adolescent girl on marathon race day.

Late responder here this week. Crazy weekend at the state meet. Boys got 2nd overall. 1st was possible, but we knew going in everything would have to click. My son got tripped at the start and had to fight his way up from about 60th place (narrow trail after 200 yds). He got 16th. Another ran into some problems at the end and dropped 35 places. However, one of the boys I've been ski/running coaching for two years won! Great group of kids.

Just getting over the foot thing, ran 30 miles last week plus 8 mile bike ride. Also put on a cross country race. Only 15 showed up, but hoping the series grows. Does my my life sound a little whack!? It is at times.

Strength training. I used to neglect that and figured that 3 to 6 months a year of xc ski training is my strength work, but now that I'm coaching kids year-round, I'm at the gym with them 9 or 10 months of the year. We do 10 min core work every session, about 35 to 50 minutes of weights. I periodize the training into different phases: adaptation, max strength, endurance, competition, and maintenance. It probably doesn't help running much, but helps skiing for sure.

It probably doesn't help running much, but helps skiing for sure.

Now this struck me as very funny, my sentiments on strength training for running completely. ha ha

No snow just sand...

Third week back 2 running.

Today, for over 41 1/2 min., generaly easy clip, out & back. Picking up pace with additional distance while returning.

Five weeks off this summer & counting this five weeks a total of 17 weeks off for this year. Persistent foot problem. Had diag. done, careful with running these days.

I do a core training/weight training circuit routine that I got out of a Runner's World book years ago and added to over the years. I do it three days a week and usually follow it with a 6 mile run, but for this marathon training cycle I'm running less mileage so I take the mileage away from these three days and have been doing only a mile afterwards on two days and four miles on the other day. Takes a little over an hour for the gym work. The idea is sort of to work every muscle in your body to some extent..I tend to do one set of 15 on most of the machines/free weights and sets of thirty for the work on my hips. I had a series of glute/piriformis issues a few years ago before I did this and they haven't come back since. I don't generally increase the weights to get progressively stronger; it's more about maintaining.

For close to 38 1/2 min. today.

Who here wears orthotics?

With the heel posts?

I'm wondering going by how my new orthotics feel & with the more stiffer shoe shank with my newly purchased runners (Brooks Mizunos & Asics Quomax) if these are suiting me. The Quomax has a really heavy duty heel but, unlike the Brooks they do bend nearer the midfoot part.

For the last two years I was wearing the Footmaxx, then at times no orthotics and getting out with running in lighter racing flats only for short distances.

I see the podiatrist Tues. and he's wiling to make any adjustments.

We shall see...

Have a good rest of the week. The newly re-named (formerly Royal Victoria Marathon) Goodlife Fitness Victoria Marathon happens this Sunday.

>>>Brooks Mizunos ``<<

(should be) Mizuno Wave Riders!!......Booboo...

%%>>unlike the Brooks.......<<<<

(should be) unlike the Mizunos.....

victoria, b.c., canada, runner wrote:

>>>Brooks Mizunos ````<

(should be) Mizuno Wave Riders!!......Booboo...

%%%%>unlike the Brooks.......<<<<

(should be) unlike the Mizunos.....

bump

Another bump, for over 41 1/2 min. this AM

Hey Vic, after you've been on this thread a while, you'll see that things don't always turn around real quickly here. Not all the people on the thread check into LRC that frequently. Your question is pretty specific, and it might be hard to get a reasonable response. I personally don't use orthotics and have relied mostly on some moderate posting available in stock shoes. A couple of guys I often run with love their Mizunos, so I got a pair of Elixirs when I won a gift certificate. After running in them a few times, I never warmed up to them, as they're too stiff and unyielding for my tastes. I have relinquished them to grass-only runs; I do like the upper though.

Rtype, after your success on that running backwards suggestion, I went online to see what there is on running backwards. I was pretty surprised at how established retro-running (or retro-locomotion), as it is commonly called, is in other parts of the world. Best academic link I found was Prof. Em. Bates at Oregon.

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~btbates/backward/backward1.htm

There are plenty of PT sites that suggest it works great for knee rehab or for tightness in the hamstrings...I haven't found definitive research though. Some elites (notably Sonya Richards) use retro-running in their regimen. I also found that Rod Dixon used retro-running very regularly.

Kiryea, regarding max heart rate, I went online again, and found this discussion from Runners World:

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/heart-rate-training-find-your-maximum-heart-rate/181.html

I was happy to see that it agreed with my experience, but it also suggests to me that your 186 bpm is probably closer to your true reading; that's a nice upper level for a 50+ yo! Mines about 182-183 bpm, when I was 18 yo is was more like 235-240 bpm. :-/

Finally, returning to the strength discussion. I had always felt that I could do whatever strength exercises I needed with my own body weight. But with the knee issue that I had this summer, I couldn't discount the possibility that the lunges I'd been doing all spring contributed in some way to the knee going over the edge when I jarred it this summer. So to some degree, I'm thinking that maybe I can get the same benefit as lunges without jarring the knee by using weights. Thanks to everyone for their insights, perspectives, and routines regarding use of weights.

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Week 20

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I'll get the week started off early. I posted a lot of stuff yesterday, so I don't have much to add other than how my week went.

What a glorious fall week! Things just worked out that I managed 54 miles running all 7 days with two doubles. Sunday thru Saturday daily totals were 11(3.5 & 7.5),7,9,8(4 & 4),4,7. There were a few hard miles scattered throughout the week, but still nothing structured. Ran a 5k race on Saturday, which was why I only ran 4 on Friday, but I'm still pretty far out of race-shape: no real speed work, 8 lbs too heavy. The course was short, so my 18:04 time is not accurate, I'd say closer to 18:25 would be correct...about what I expected based on what little timed efforts I did do during workouts. The lack of speed-endurance really showed as I wasn't able to sustain effort past the halfway point. Most importantly, though, was that the knee felt great!

OK, hope everyone has been getting in some good miles!

lucKY2b, thanks for the link re: max heart rate. It does seem to agree with what you and others posted earlier. Maybe I'll have to schedule some time on the track. BTW, I'm surprised the article makes no mention of using HR reserve to determine proper training paces. Maybe that was outside the realm of that particular article.

frets, do I understand correctly that you do weights before your runs? That seems to be the opposite of conventional thinking for runners. Do you consider running to be your primary exercise, or the weight training? In other words, do you do weights to support your running, or run to support your weight work?

Kiryea wrote:

BTW, I'm surprised the article makes no mention of using HR reserve to determine proper training paces. Maybe that was outside the realm of that particular article.

It was. This article was just one in an entire series devoted to HR training. If you look towards the bottom of the article, there are links to related articles on HR training. Also, the next/previous tabs take you to other articles in the series.

Kiryea wrote:

lucKY2b, thanks for the link re: max heart rate. It does seem to agree with what you and others posted earlier. Maybe I'll have to schedule some time on the track. BTW, I'm surprised the article makes no mention of using HR reserve to determine proper training paces. Maybe that was outside the realm of that particular article.

frets, do I understand correctly that you do weights before your runs? That seems to be the opposite of conventional thinking for runners. Do you consider running to be your primary exercise, or the weight training? In other words, do you do weights to support your running, or run to support your weight work?

I didn't start running till about 40...I did little in the way of strength training for the first five years/10,000 miles. Then I got the piriformis issues and a physical therapist who evaluated me on two separate occasions said the only strength issue he could find was that I had no gluteal strength at all. So I started adding much more strength training as a way of not getting re-injured. I run two marathons a year and usually seven days a week so the gym work lets me get it out of the way with one session. When I train at my hardest, I have a speed session Tuesday evenings so I move that strength session to Tuesday morning. The runs after the gym work are typically EZ pace 6 or 7 miles. I don't lift real heavy weights...just enough to keep all the joints healthy. Like, I never did calf work because I have large calves and they never spasmed or anything and then I overdid once and my achilles swelled to the size of a sausage, so then I added eccentric calf drops.

Congrats on the race lucKY2b. 18:25 is quite good considering the year. That age-grades to a 15:50. Thanks for the info on “Retro-Running”; it seems an appropriate moniker for our age group, ha ha. I recall in high school we ran backwards because we were horrid little jerks that did this during the race to taunt the competition. Whether it is the retro running or the 10 other things I’m doing the knee is essentially 100% now but with some precautions. I’m going to stick with the 5 days a week and 15 to 20 mile weekly max structure indefinitely. But I’m not running it easy. I’m not on the track yet but I am pressing the pace and hitting the hills hard two days a week. I guess this will be an experiment, of sorts. I actually achieved my old-man 5K PR of ~19:00 on 25 miles a week so I’ll see where this takes me. I’m not an evangelist for low mileage, my body is forcing me to keep the miles low. This is not my preference.

Your short race brings up a personal pet peeve of mine: inaccurate courses. Two weeks in a row in my area some fairly big races were: the first one long, and the second one short. Since I’m not racing I got to be the bearer of good news in the first case to my friends who were pissed at their times. But I was the bearer of bad news on the second one for those who thought (and some still do) they set PR’s. I have three 5K races in the 18’s but I don’t count them as PR’s because I suspect they were short.

One more crazy week down. Last week it was State meet for the kids, this week I put on the season finale of the XC series I've started this year. We had a great day and a little better turn out this time.

It was a three loop 6K with total of 10 hay bale and log jumps. I was able to run this time, got some of the kids to do the timing. Got 2nd overall, 22:50. Not race ready after a sketchy six weeks, but it was fun to run hard. The local paper had an article and several good pictures.

37 for the week, plus two roller ski sessions (50 min each) and two weight workouts.

Next week, Portland with the kids.

Rtype wrote: Congrats on the race lucKY2b. 18:25 is quite good considering the year.

Thanks Rtype. Still far off where I was pre-injury, but I'm OK with it, especially considering my weight.

Rtype wrote: Thanks for the info on “Retro-Running”; it seems an appropriate moniker for our age group, ha ha.

Love it. Too bad it's already commonly used for something else.

Rtype wrote: Your short race brings up a personal pet peeve of mine: inaccurate courses.

You and me, brother. It is just not that hard to get a 5k course accurate to within 15-20 m. Better than 10 m takes some effort, but really annoys me how little effort some must put in to laying out a reasonably accurate course.

AK-53, that's one helluva time on the 6k XC course. I'm not sure I could run that without all the barriers...unless maybe it was golf-course smooth. Good luck to your kiddos down in Portland.

Skuj, nice week. That 7:16 "cruisy" 2k is a solid effort; that's pretty darn close to race-pace right there (5:50/mile pace). If you really feel you can go longer and faster as a workout, you'll be sub-17 (5:28/mile pace)before you know it.

Frets, nice that you've found a prescription that works for you; I'm often frustrated that I'm constantly having to tweak what ancillary exercises I do as new aches and pains crop up.

I really liked this quote from Pete Magill in his recent article about training and recovery:

"In running, it's not the training we do that counts; it's the training from which we can recover." Good words to train by.

Cheers.

The weather here has been outstanding for the last 10-12 days. Can't help but get in some good running and riding under these conditions. With that in mind I ventured to the UP for a 2 and half hour trail run with a friend in the Porkies. That was Tuesday; Wednesday I followed up with a 70 mile solo road bike ride over what I consider some of the most beautiful real estate on the planet. The roads lining the south shore of Lake Superior in Keweenaw County, Michigan. It was a trip down memory lane as well. For a number of years in the late 70's and early 80's a 50 mile road race was held on these roads. I managed to take part twice; dnf'd in '79 and ran a 5;44 in '80. The dunes, waterfalls,lake overlooks, and forest are as pristine as ever.

Often thought this would be an wonderful place to retire, but the winters are formidable.

Anyway, capped the week with a 30 min run on Friday, and added a couple more road rides to tally 110 miles for the week.

HR max. Currently~174. Once recorded a 225 @ 26YO.

Backwards running; yes. Magill's drills; bingo. Firewood splitting and handling a plus as well.

lucKY2B; How about those Packers?!!!

Bushman wrote:

With that in mind I ventured to the UP for a 2 and half hour trail run with a friend in the Porkies. That was Tuesday; Wednesday I followed up with a 70 mile solo road bike ride over what I consider some of the most beautiful real estate on the planet. The roads lining the south shore of Lake Superior in Keweenaw County, Michigan. It was a trip down memory lane as well.

Brings back memories for me, as well. Loved XC and downhill skiing up in the North through the Porkies with Lake Superior as a back drop. Awesome.

Bushman wrote:lucKY2B; How about those Packers?!!!

Lovin' it. But I'm a little unnerved by those Lions. What's up with that?

If you all get a chance, you might want to read Muddy Girl's post on the "Masters Weekend Races and Runs" thread; it's a nice bit of prose....and Happy B-day to MG, too.

Carry on.