How close is Kenya to being kicked out of world competition?
how russia is banned and kenya is not, is some kind of politics, obviously. the country is filthy. it's getting to be absurd.
There are currently no rules that would authorize banning a country. The country of Russia was never banned.
The athletic federation ARAF was banned, as a direct consequence of its actions violating WADA rules.
The anti-doping agency RUSADA was banned, as a direct consequence of its actions violating WADA rules.
The WADA Lab in Moscow had its WADA-accreditation revoked, as a direct consequence of its actions violating WADA rules.
But generally speaking, Russian athletes could continue to compete under a neutral flag, if they met anti-doping requirements.
There are no parallels with ADAK, AK, or the WADA-accredited lab in Nairobi violating WADA rules, that would justify banning these organizations like their Russian counterparts.
To ban these organizations would require creating new rules. Note that if WADA, representing some 30 Olympic and non-Olympic sports, created these rules, in a future version of its Code, Kenya is not even ranked in the top-10 countries subject to WADA rules -- many countries would have to be banned along with Kenya, like India, China, Italy, and the United States. And if the AIU created these rules, they run the risk of being declared non-compliant for their rogue behavior.
Nobody is explaining the doping strategy. It doesn't make sense to take a very-detectable dose 5 days after a race unless it aids in recovery or adaptation.
Who could have predicted you would first troll me, and then turn around and call me the troll? It took you just one post.
This thread doesn't dissappoint with the same leaps of faith and fallacies and baseless allegations and self-confirmation that I have seen here for decades.
I will still keep reading the thread to see if any new facts emerge though, while filtering out all the noise and the echos.
Who could have predicted you would first troll me, and then turn around and call me the troll? It took you just one post.
This thread doesn't dissappoint with the same leaps of faith and fallacies and baseless allegations and self-confirmation that I have seen here for decades.
I will still keep reading the thread to see if any new facts emerge though, while filtering out all the noise and the echos.
Recall that you were the first to call me the troll. No surprise there. Despite your years of trolling, I should add. Somewhat lame and predictable, but here I am responding to you.
Of course you completely ignored what I said, and just kept trolling.
But true, you also keep going with the same leaps of faith and fallacies and baseless allegations and self-confirmation that I have seen here for decades like you always do. At least you are admitting this now, that is progress.
Recall that you were the first to call me the troll. No surprise there. Despite your years of trolling, I should add. Somewhat lame and predictable, but here I am responding to you.
Of course you completely ignored what I said, and just kept trolling.
But true, you also keep going with the same leaps of faith and fallacies and baseless allegations and self-confirmation that I have seen here for decades like you always do. At least you are admitting this now, that is progress.
Years of trolling? Another illusion.
I did say I would keep looking for facts, and ignore the noise.
Here's a fun fact: She ran 66 minutes in the half marathon when she was busted -- two minutes slower than her best, and two minutes behind the winner.
Here's a request for facts over fallacies: How do we even know a banned PED exists for the marathon?
If I go up to a girl in a bar and ask her what would you say to men who come up to your beautiful self and request to bed you do you really think she doesn’t believe I myself wanna get inside her pants?
Common sense psychology Rojo, check with a trained psychiatrist on non verbal cues.
Kenyan parliament doesn’t need to admit apology but maybe you need to admit you were a tad shy to phrase the question in the first person.
And btw the idea about financial punishment by Thoughtsleader is just so perfunctory and ill considered.
how russia is banned and kenya is not, is some kind of politics, obviously. the country is filthy. it's getting to be absurd.
There are currently no rules that would authorize banning a country. The country of Russia was never banned.
The athletic federation ARAF was banned, as a direct consequence of its actions violating WADA rules.
The anti-doping agency RUSADA was banned, as a direct consequence of its actions violating WADA rules.
The WADA Lab in Moscow had its WADA-accreditation revoked, as a direct consequence of its actions violating WADA rules.
But generally speaking, Russian athletes could continue to compete under a neutral flag, if they met anti-doping requirements.
There are no parallels with ADAK, AK, or the WADA-accredited lab in Nairobi violating WADA rules, that would justify banning these organizations like their Russian counterparts.
To ban these organizations would require creating new rules. Note that if WADA, representing some 30 Olympic and non-Olympic sports, created these rules, in a future version of its Code, Kenya is not even ranked in the top-10 countries subject to WADA rules -- many countries would have to be banned along with Kenya, like India, China, Italy, and the United States. And if the AIU created these rules, they run the risk of being declared non-compliant for their rogue behavior.
Recall that you were the first to call me the troll. No surprise there. Despite your years of trolling, I should add. Somewhat lame and predictable, but here I am responding to you.
Of course you completely ignored what I said, and just kept trolling.
But true, you also keep going with the same leaps of faith and fallacies and baseless allegations and self-confirmation that I have seen here for decades like you always do. At least you are admitting this now, that is progress.
Years of trolling? Another illusion.
I did say I would keep looking for facts, and ignore the noise.
Here's a fun fact: She ran 66 minutes in the half marathon when she was busted -- two minutes slower than her best, and two minutes behind the winner.
Here's a request for facts over fallacies: How do we even know a banned PED exists for the marathon?
She probably wasn’t doping for her 66min half. We either fit the facts to explain the story or fit the story to explain the facts. A good scientist and theologian use both inductive and deductive reasoning to paint the story, but as for you the rekbot you are overly partisan towards the deductive side!!
This post was edited 51 seconds after it was posted.
I liked Reavis' article a lot. The sport encourages cheating. There's a lot of money on the line now & athletes are fine taking drugs after doing their risk/reward analysis. The general public is too fixated on fast times versus good racing. Agents/coaches/manager/shoe companies/title sponsors/etc all get to claim ignorance & can just go put their money/resources behind the next best doper who hasn't been caught yet. That cycle needs to stop. It's getting harder & harder to watch, knowing that what you're seeing isn't real, but that there aren't enough people who care so that the system has to change.
Not defending her, but her 2:09 was not so much an outlier based on her history.
Her history indicates that she was a very successful and accomplished runner that had never failed a drug test before running 2:09 in Chicago. She had won 8 prior marathons, including the World Championship marathon. She had a more recent history of going out very hard and fast in marathons (sub world record pace) but then fading.
In addition, she had run 15 half marathons. This included setting a world record in the half marathon of 1:04:02 in 2021. She won 8 of the half marathons she ran and broke 1:07 six times.
Both her marathon and half marathon times indicate a general progression/trend of faster and faster times.
Again not defending her, but Chepngetich did not come out of nowhere and she generally lowered her half and full marathon times as she became more experienced.
It seems likely that she was targeting world records in both those distances as she went on and it took her a few attempts to get there. Note how she ran the four Chicago Marathons in 2021-2024 below which indicated that she was likely targeting the world record in those races. Her splits during the 2024 races were not much of an outlier based on her approach to the three prior years.
Every world record can be viewed as an outlier to a certain extent.
Her major race history:
2018 won Istanbul Marathon in 2:18
2022 2nd Paris Marathon 2:22
2019 won Dubai Marathon in 2:17:08
2019 won World Championship Marathon in 2:32. This was in Doha and run in incredibly hot and humid conditions
2020 third in London Marathon in 2:22
2021 won Istanbul Half Marathon in new world record time of 1:04:02. She had run 15 half marathons in the 5 years before this. She won 7 of those other half marathons and her times indicated a normal progression of improvement until she ran 1:04. She broke 1:07 six times.
2021 won Chicago Marathon in 2:22, but she did so by going out really fast (67 min at half marathon) before fading.
2022 won Nagoya Women only Marathon in 2:22. Ran negative splits.
2022 won Chicago Marathon in 2:14:18. This was a personal best by 2:50 and only 14 seconds slower than the world record. She went out incredibly fast and well under world record pace (49:49 at 10 miles, 65 at the half) before slowing.
2023 won Nagoya Women only Marathon in 2:18
2023 2nd in Chicago Marathon in 2:15:37. She again started incredibly fast (31:05 at 10k, 65 at the half) before slowing and being passed by eventual winner Sifan Hassan.
2024 won Chicago Marathon in 2:09:56 a personal best by 4:22. She started faster ( 30:14 at 10k and 64 at the half) and slowed less.
the down votes tell the tale.
let me none the less smash this "analysis"
this chick up to the age of 27 ran the half in 107 average in her prime years 5 years prior.
her half marathon splits in the "record" were 104.56
up to age 27, she averaged 220 marathon. her best in 2021 2022 was 222 and 222
in 2022 she hit the PEDs full meal deal.
and improved 10 to 12 minutes in the marathon for the 209 PR at age 30.
Like the old man who ran 339 in his prime and comes in at age 31 for 327
this is for the boards to learn, and they will
Please confirm are you saying the old guy who you claimed improved from 3:30 and 3:31 to 3:27 is Cole Shocker? Is this the target man doper?
And please also confirm that you believe that an elite marathoner can improve 10-12 minutes in a marathon on EPO masked by diuretic? It certainly has to be EPO as it’s the only effective drug for endurance sport.
Can we force an admission from Ruth for EPO in exchange for reduced 1 year ban?
Nobody is explaining the doping strategy. It doesn't make sense to take a very-detectable dose 5 days after a race unless it aids in recovery or adaptation.
As background the drug hydrochlorothiazide is banned as a masking agent. Masking agents are drugs that can be taken to hide the presence of other drugs in your system. In this case she tested positive for hydrochlorothiazide by a long way (3800ng/ml 190 times higher compared to 200ng/ml below which represents a negative). This drug is a diuretic (i.e. will make you pee) and reduces water retention.
Most likely options is she knew she was going to be tested and took a large dose of diuretics to flush her system. If you know you're going to be tested within a few days and you're running hot then you can take a large dose of diuretics to flush the drugs from your system prior to the test by excreting it in urine in the time leading up to the test. Therefore this results in lower undetectable levels of those other drugs but leaving the masking drug's residue. This of course needs some knowledge of upcoming tests but this isn't implausible given her high profile and likely connections in Kenyan athletics.
Therefore the masking agent is not expected to provide fitness benefits but is banned as it can be used to hide evidence of actual PEDs.
I liked Reavis' article a lot. The sport encourages cheating. There's a lot of money on the line now & athletes are fine taking drugs after doing their risk/reward analysis. The general public is too fixated on fast times versus good racing. Agents/coaches/manager/shoe companies/title sponsors/etc all get to claim ignorance & can just go put their money/resources behind the next best doper who hasn't been caught yet. That cycle needs to stop. It's getting harder & harder to watch, knowing that what you're seeing isn't real, but that there aren't enough people who care so that the system has to change.
Now you can understand why I keep waxing lyrical about potential fraud in the 3-4 characters of American middle distance running don’t you?
“it’s getting harder and harder to watch American middle distance…”
If an American woman ran 2:09 then Rojo would absolutely ask this question and more.
lol. Just like he treated Houlihan! Where is Gault bending over to prove Ruth's innocence???
Exactly. I am here waiting and have yet to see any of his attempts. Is he working on a similar go-fund-me? It smacks of ...ism, but I hope he will prove me wrong.
I did say I would keep looking for facts, and ignore the noise.
Here's a fun fact: She ran 66 minutes in the half marathon when she was busted -- two minutes slower than her best, and two minutes behind the winner.
Here's a request for facts over fallacies: How do we even know a banned PED exists for the marathon?
She probably wasn’t doping for her 66min half. We either fit the facts to explain the story or fit the story to explain the facts. A good scientist and theologian use both inductive and deductive reasoning to paint the story, but as for you the rekbot you are overly partisan towards the deductive side!!
Theologians do that, but a good scientist does not as to do so throws the scientific method out the window.
The anger from the third worlders seeing yet another of their kin caught cheating is quite telling. They’re so used to favored treatment and seeing their athletes get a wink and a nod from crooked officials that they are having mental breakdowns over this. lol
The only way Kenyan Parliament can make this right is to invite Rojo to be a guest speaker.
What would be rojo's topic? How she should have eaten a burrito instead? Ode to burrito? Explanation of why he staunchly supports one banned athlete while calling for the head of another banned athlete?