You've never read the Bible and you don't remember a single mention?? NO WAY!!
Jeremiah 1:5 ~ "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."
Psalm 139:13-16 ~ For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
Exodus 20:13 ~ “You shall not murder."
Welcome back. You need to read the previous back and forth posts to see what we are really arguing about.
"I don’t remember a single mention of “abortion” in the Bible, but American churches are making anti abortion their central teaching, even more important than the Ten Commandments. Why is that?"
Does it really confuse that people who consider abortion to be murder would consider it important?
Some would argue that Thou Shall Not Kill it's the most important commandment.
I can’t believe you are so delusional about the Book of Mormon. It’s simple, the Lord God had spoken from Genesis to Revelation that the holy bibe is the first and last masterpiece supernatural living story ever created in space and time. At no point in this holy book was the name Joseph smith and angel moroni mentioned! Please repent of your delusion asap. Do you wanna go to heaven or Sheol?
You're dodging again, King Phy. It's very weird and telling that you can't bring yourself to comment on the veracity and/or truthfulness of the 12 Mormon witnesses, Joseph Smith and the Angel Moroni.
You and Father Fuentes and 55 YO have already been corrected on Matthew 24:34.
12 schizoprenic or delusional witnesses you mean? You are absurd. I already showed you the way the truth and the life!!
As El Rey Del Fisica, I don’t dodge nothing! I enter all things and speak as much truth as I can muster from the depths of my soul. There is nothing to account for. There is not angel moroni or Joseph Smith mentioned in La Biblia. It’s true.
if you want a real explanation I would say Joseph is schizophrenic and hears voices and saw visions and that’s how to account for his story!
As La Raza Cosmica, I'm here to tell you that you are dodging again. It needs to stop.
We're talking about the 12 Mormon witnesses and Angel Moroni. You're claiming they were all somehow suffering schizophrenia at the same time, with the same imaginary voices and visions? That's highly unlikely.
And how does it matter that the Bible doesn't mention the Angel Moroni? The Bible never purports to be a comprehensive list of all the angels. There are thousands of unmentioned angels. This Angel Moroni took it upon itself to lead Joseph Smith to golden plates that had text in reformed Egyptian on them -- which at least 12 non-schizophrenic people saw as well -- and have Joseph Smith transcribe them. As it turns out, the golden plates -- which were drafted hundreds of years before the New Testament -- were actually the text of the third Book of the current Bible. The Mormons have the witness testimony for this.
Don’t make me laugh dude. Only the Angel lucifer can take it upon himself to falsely lead some dumb human being to fake plates!! God says that whoever adds or takes away from la palabra del dios is not from God! Stop all these blasphemy will ya?
I’ll explain in electromagnetic terms because all life, space, time, existence and El Soul has electromagnetic basis, so it’s easier to cache everything in terms of electromagnetic terminology.
El Soul was formed when God himself was formed because human souls are carved out of God’s!! But the bible says God had no beginning in space and time so that’s taken to mean mathematically as an infinite time ago. Thus your soul has existed an infinite time before and will continue to exist an infinite time more! Get it?!
thus you also can’t kill a soul because you can never kill God or kill the laws of Physics.
when an abortion is performed the soul of the fetus is active and forfeited back to God. Soul of the fetus is automatically commissioned the moment the male spermatoza inseminates a female egg. Both the sperm and egg respectively represents the respective souls of the man and woman!
Hold down a minute. If we cannot kill a soul, why are Christians against abortion? If we are talking about medical definition of human beings, why are churches inserting themselves in the middle? I don’t remember a single mention of “abortion” in the Bible, but American churches are making anti abortion their central teaching, even more important than the Ten Commandments. Why is that?
As El Rey del fisica, I will always point you back to la palabra del dios bien?
anti abortion is not mas importante than la diez commandments. They are on equal parity thus both equally importante!
abortion is not the killing of soul but the deprivation of the divine right of the soul to lead a meaningful physical life in accordance with the will of God! God had pre-destined and pre-purposed that soul!
since the soul and physics are one in the same existence, there is soul in every cellular machinery in the body. These cells do the will of God amen.
☺️
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Hold down a minute. If we cannot kill a soul, why are Christians against abortion? If we are talking about medical definition of human beings, why are churches inserting themselves in the middle? I don’t remember a single mention of “abortion” in the Bible, but American churches are making anti abortion their central teaching, even more important than the Ten Commandments. Why is that?
No the Churches are not doing that. More lies. The Ten Commandments are the Ten Commandments, they are expected and already known. You made that up and make zero sense.
Yes there are so many blasphemous Mormon fools on this forum who have gone astray from the true palabra de dios. Repent all! 😳
The majority of earth's population is not Christian and is going to hell according to Christian logic.
It’s simple fear mongering to make people stay faithful to Christianity. Basically back in the day a groups of Christian religious leaders got together and thought hmmmm what can we threaten people with to make sure they don’t stray and keep funding the church….ahhhumm! Let’s tell them they won’t just die but will spend eternity in a pit full of lava beneath the Earth.
You have spoken blasphemy and spiritual falsehood about true Christianity. And you can’t redeem yourself without also believing in Christianity. I pity you!
As La Raza Cosmica, I'm here to tell you that you are dodging again. It needs to stop.
We're talking about the 12 Mormon witnesses and Angel Moroni. You're claiming they were all somehow suffering schizophrenia at the same time, with the same imaginary voices and visions? That's highly unlikely.
And how does it matter that the Bible doesn't mention the Angel Moroni? The Bible never purports to be a comprehensive list of all the angels. There are thousands of unmentioned angels. This Angel Moroni took it upon itself to lead Joseph Smith to golden plates that had text in reformed Egyptian on them -- which at least 12 non-schizophrenic people saw as well -- and have Joseph Smith transcribe them. As it turns out, the golden plates -- which were drafted hundreds of years before the New Testament -- were actually the text of the third Book of the current Bible. The Mormons have the witness testimony for this.
Don’t make me laugh dude. Only the Angel lucifer can take it upon himself to falsely lead some dumb human being to fake plates!! God says that whoever adds or takes away from la palabra del dios is not from God! Stop all these blasphemy will ya?
Did it concern you when God allowed Lucifer to kill Job’s entire family? Wasn’t their cooperation in the murder of good people and torture of Job deplorable?
Welcome back. You need to read the previous back and forth posts to see what we are really arguing about.
"I don’t remember a single mention of “abortion” in the Bible, but American churches are making anti abortion their central teaching, even more important than the Ten Commandments. Why is that?"
Does it really confuse that people who consider abortion to be murder would consider it important?
Some would argue that Thou Shall Not Kill it's the most important commandment.
Book of Numbers, Chapter 5 (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife 11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[c] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy,while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astraywhile married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” “‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.” 23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scrolland then wash them off into the bitter water.24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her.25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[e]offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children. 29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”
Hold down a minute. If we cannot kill a soul, why are Christians against abortion? If we are talking about medical definition of human beings, why are churches inserting themselves in the middle? I don’t remember a single mention of “abortion” in the Bible, but American churches are making anti abortion their central teaching, even more important than the Ten Commandments. Why is that?
As El Rey del fisica, I will always point you back to la palabra del dios bien?
anti abortion is not mas importante than la diez commandments. They are on equal parity thus both equally importante!
abortion is not the killing of soul but the deprivation of the divine right of the soul to lead a meaningful physical life in accordance with the will of God! God had pre-destined and pre-purposed that soul!
since the soul and physics are one in the same existence, there is soul in every cellular machinery in the body. These cells do the will of God amen.
☺️
You are almost there. You admit “abortion is not the killing of soul”, so abortion is not murder. But abortion is “the deprivation of the divine right of the soul to lead a meaningful physical life in accordance with the will of God”, la palabra del dios bien, abortion is as bad as murder, so abortion is murder?
Sorry, but I had to be away for a few days. Here is my rebuttal:
First, the scripture you are referring to: 32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two men in the field; one [will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Verses at issue bolded.
Now, check out verse 36. It speaks saying, "But of that day", which I take to mean that Jesus was speaking about all these things will take place before that generation passes away.
It's plain English. But to the extent I understand your rewording of it, I agree.
ALL of certain "things" will happen before "this generation" passes away. The day and hour are unknown except to "the Father" (Matthew 24:36) -- all we are told is that "this generation will certainly not pass away UNTIL all these things have happened." Matthew 24:34.
What things? Well, Jesus spoke about "that day", which was the day of His return. This means that was not to occur before that generation passes away.
To the extent you can be understood, NO, it does not mean that (bolded above) at all. It means the exact opposite. You are either deliberately or unwittingly playing around with double negatives and tenses, and have completely turned the entire passage and verse upside down. You really read Matthew 24:34 to mean that all these "things" happen AFTER "this generation" passes away? It's hard to take you seriously. This is all basic English grammar and sentence construction, and you somehow inverted it. You make no sense.
AGAIN: "Things will take place/happen" BEFORE "this generation passes away." One of those things that will happen BEFORE "this generation passes away" is "the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven." Matthew 24:30. "Son of Man coming" is one of the "things that take place" BEFORE (not after) "THIS generation" passes away.
So, what are these things? I say they were the destruction of the Temple, and the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD. (Note: I am not a premillennialist, so I do not agree with their teaching. They claim that all of this passage is about the Second Coming, which I claim they are wrong about.)
The point isn't to make a comprehensive list of the "things," but they are recited in the verses before Matthew 24:34 and at least one of them is "the Son of Man coming on the clouds." Matthew 24:30.
The point is that the "things" undeniably did NOT happen before "this generation" to whom Jesus was speaking passed away, as He promised. Jesus was wrong.
So, I will not spend time giving you passages about the use of the word "generation". as it is not necessary.
Suit yourself. But in Post #245 on Page #13 of this thread, you argued I was using an incorrect definition of "this generation" and you claimed you had occurrences of the term in Psalms that supported your definition of "this generation" as a group of people with alike mindset or genetic traits. So I did what you never did and looked at Psalms to see if you were correct. I did not find anything supporting your argument and I informed you of that. See Paragraphs 2-3 in Post #277 on Page #14. You seem to have now abandoned that Psalms argument regarding definitions and usages of "this generation."
Again, you have to understand what was said. Jesus started talking about the destruction of Jerusalem, but then was asked about the two other things. He was answering their other questions, and then returned to what He first mentioned. That is why He stated "but of that day and that hour", because it was not part of "all these things" that He was speaking of from the start of the dialogue.
It should be noted that when Jerusalem was surrounded the first time, the Romans left for a while. During the time they had left, the Christians in Jerusalem fled, as warned, and when Titus returned to destroy Jerusalem, they were gone, but the unbelieving Jews were left to suffer the fate of destruction.
As for me abandoning something I had stated before, you are incorrect, as noted in a subsequent post. I still know my position is true.
It's plain English. But to the extent I understand your rewording of it, I agree.
ALL of certain "things" will happen before "this generation" passes away. The day and hour are unknown except to "the Father" (Matthew 24:36) -- all we are told is that "this generation will certainly not pass away UNTIL all these things have happened." Matthew 24:34.
To the extent you can be understood, NO, it does not mean that (bolded above) at all. It means the exact opposite. You are either deliberately or unwittingly playing around with double negatives and tenses, and have completely turned the entire passage and verse upside down. You really read Matthew 24:34 to mean that all these "things" happen AFTER "this generation" passes away? It's hard to take you seriously. This is all basic English grammar and sentence construction, and you somehow inverted it. You make no sense.
AGAIN: "Things will take place/happen" BEFORE "this generation passes away." One of those things that will happen BEFORE "this generation passes away" is "the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven." Matthew 24:30. "Son of Man coming" is one of the "things that take place" BEFORE (not after) "THIS generation" passes away.
The point isn't to make a comprehensive list of the "things," but they are recited in the verses before Matthew 24:34 and at least one of them is "the Son of Man coming on the clouds." Matthew 24:30.
The point is that the "things" undeniably did NOT happen before "this generation" to whom Jesus was speaking passed away, as He promised. Jesus was wrong.
Suit yourself. But in Post #245 on Page #13 of this thread, you argued I was using an incorrect definition of "this generation" and you claimed you had occurrences of the term in Psalms that supported your definition of "this generation" as a group of people with alike mindset or genetic traits. So I did what you never did and looked at Psalms to see if you were correct. I did not find anything supporting your argument and I informed you of that. See Paragraphs 2-3 in Post #277 on Page #14. You seem to have now abandoned that Psalms argument regarding definitions and usages of "this generation."
Again, you have to understand what was said. Jesus started talking about the destruction of Jerusalem, but then was asked about the two other things. He was answering their other questions, and then returned to what He first mentioned. That is why He stated "but of that day and that hour", because it was not part of "all these things" that He was speaking of from the start of the dialogue.
I don't even know what your new and latest argument is. You are making zero sense and I think you know it.
According to the Bible, Jesus said: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." We have discussed what "this generation" means. And we know that "these things" includes at least ""the Son of Man coming in the clouds." Matthew 24:30. That is the last "thing" Jesus recited prior to saying "this generation will not pass away until allthese things take place."
Jesus was wrong. The "Son of Man coming in the clouds" absolutely did NOT happen before the "generation" Jesus was speaking to passed away. Matthew 24:34. It STILL hasn't happened, despite DOZENS of generations passing away since Jesus uttered the words.
You have changed your argument and now seem to believe that Jesus' further statement that no one knows the exact day and hour during "this generation" that "all these things" have taken place (Matthew 24: 36), somehow . . . . does what exactly? It doesn't change a thing. Matthew 24:34 is a false statement by Jesus.
As for me abandoning something I had stated before, you are incorrect, as noted in a subsequent post. I still know my position is true.
I'm sure you believe it was true, but you're completely illogical. You said there were verses in Psalms that proved your definition of "this generation" was accurate. I looked and found none -- in fact, I found verses to the contrary and posted them for you. See Paragraph 3 of Post #277 on Page 14. You have subsequently failed to cite a single verse in Psalms that supports your point. Whether you believe it or not, you've abandoned the argument previously made.
As El Rey del fisica, I will always point you back to la palabra del dios bien?
anti abortion is not mas importante than la diez commandments. They are on equal parity thus both equally importante!
abortion is not the killing of soul but the deprivation of the divine right of the soul to lead a meaningful physical life in accordance with the will of God! God had pre-destined and pre-purposed that soul!
since the soul and physics are one in the same existence, there is soul in every cellular machinery in the body. These cells do the will of God amen.
☺️
You are almost there. You admit “abortion is not the killing of soul”, so abortion is not murder. But abortion is “the deprivation of the divine right of the soul to lead a meaningful physical life in accordance with the will of God”, la palabra del dios bien, abortion is as bad as murder, so abortion is murder?
Definition of murder on earth is secular and Godless. It’s man made. Definition of murder in the high heavens is mere hate and dislike. So it depends on which definition you use. I use the high heavens one.
You are almost there. You admit “abortion is not the killing of soul”, so abortion is not murder. But abortion is “the deprivation of the divine right of the soul to lead a meaningful physical life in accordance with the will of God”, la palabra del dios bien, abortion is as bad as murder, so abortion is murder?
Definition of murder on earth is secular and Godless. It’s man made. Definition of murder in the high heavens is mere hate and dislike. So it depends on which definition you use. I use the high heavens one.
Where did the notion of murder necessitating killing of the soul come from? Killing an innocent person is murder.
Killing a soul is called much worse because it refers to leading a soul into eternal damnation - which was what OP wanted to discuss. That's why, in Catholic confessional states, there were laws against leading souls astray.
Maybe you do go to hell, or maybe your soul ceases to exist. You have to be REALLY sure to risk eternity. Yes, I have fear of death and eternal torment. Even if it’s only a 0.001% chance, the stakes are too great to risk it. Even if the probability is low, the severity of the risk still makes it a high threat.
Welcome back. You need to read the previous back and forth posts to see what we are really arguing about.
"I don’t remember a single mention of “abortion” in the Bible, but American churches are making anti abortion their central teaching, even more important than the Ten Commandments. Why is that?"
Does it really confuse that people who consider abortion to be murder would consider it important?
Some would argue that Thou Shall Not Kill it's the most important commandment.
First, abortion doesn’t equal to murder. The American churches have been using biblical references to prove soul exists before birth, so abortion would be equivalent to murder. This has been refuted as we agree that soul cannot be killed, at least not by abortion.
Second, Thou shall not kill is not the biggest commandment. The Ten Commandments are listed in a particular order, preserving relationships between human and god is more important than maintaining justice between humans and humans. In the Gospels, Jesus also mentioned the same talking point. Therefore, worshipping other gods or putting god’s name in vain is much punishable than murder itself.
The false teachers in American churches are preaching political agendas instead of the Bible itself. They are worshipping other gods (money and power), and their actions are putting gods name in vain (swear in gods name for political and monetary gains). Therefore, their behaviors are more punishable than murder (even if you consider abortion as murder).
Christians are anti-semitic as they believe that Jews are all going to hell because they don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah.
No you just differentiate between immoral anti semiticism and moral anti semitcism. The latter Centers Jesus as the pillar of morality thus provides an legitimate exception to anti semiticism. This would be the only circumstance that anti semiticism is not considered deviant behavior.
Christians are anti-semitic as they believe that Jews are all going to hell because they don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah.
No you just differentiate between immoral anti semiticism and moral anti semitcism. The latter Centers Jesus as the pillar of morality thus provides an legitimate exception to anti semiticism. This would be the only circumstance that anti semiticism is not considered deviant behavior.
That's somewhat true, but Matthew 27:25 states that crowd of onlooker at Jesus murder event all said "His blood is on us and on our children!”
There's a lot of problematic stuff for Christians in Matthew. You can see why it is not a popular book amongst Believers.
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