Top 20 doesn't make the case for change. As long as top 10 qualify and top 2 from each region, the goal is achieved.
Top 20 is an umbrella that all 5 teams fit comfortably into. You can certainly make the case that there are top-10 level teams that are staying home in the southwest.
Hamilton was ranked in the top 10 at various points in the season. Beat CDA at Woodbridge. Rio Rancho beat El Paso Eastwood at Desert Twilight by the same margin that undisputed top 10 team Carroll did at their state meet.
Rio Rancho and Valor averaged 15:16 and 15:20 at NXRSW. On a similarly flat and fast course in the Heartland region Spring Hill (Heartland champions) averaged 15:26. I could go on...
It's easy for outsiders to say it doesn't matter, but for teams in the southwest it's frustrating. Our route to making NXN is being a definitively top-10 team nationally who runs a perfect race to beat out 5-6 similarly ranked teams for the final at-large bid. In other regions you can make it while being (questionably) a top 40-50 ranked team nationally.
All I'd ask is that New York is absorbed by the northeast and they use the extra region to split the southwest. Maybe move Wyoming and Montana in with Utah and some heartland teams in with Colorado. No extra teams or additional at-larges. Just some rebalancing of the regions so the top teams in the nation are better represented at our national meet.
Why doesn't Nike do occasional regional realignment every 3-4 years or so? It would make sense to do that given that things change over time and certain areas are more competitive than others.
I'm not sure previous year's results should matter. Why would the kids be responsible by what somebody else did the previous year/s? NXN is yearly.
It is Nike's decision to make though. It's their race and they can do whatever they want.
Just facts here: Webb of Knox girls ends up being the highest ranked non-qualifier (ranked 17th after NXRs), even though they were ranked ahead of JSerra (barely decent state race), and Carmel (even further back in rankings).
Webb had an exceptional NXR, their State Champ falls and has to pass over 100 girls to end 13th (#determination). They lose by 1 point.
Then they run Footlocker at close to the same average pace on a more difficult course (with 2 PRs) to show they are peaking at the right time.
There was nothing to say that they should have lost the at-large to those two teams, having just been ranked ahead of them 2 days prior.
I'm not sure what else the Webb girls could have done to get 1 at-large. Where else will they go race? They have 11 states + DC in their region. Brutal.
Use it as motivation for the future. Look at Mountain Vista. In 2022 they finished 4th at NXR SW by 16 points. Didn’t get in to NXN. The teams ahead of them finished 2, 4, and 7 at NXN (they likely would have been 8th at NXN). Instead, they went to Runninglane and won that. Came back the next year and got third at NXN. This year, they look to become champs. In 2023, Fossil Ridge placed 7th at NXR SW (the teams they lost to went 1, 2, 3 and 4 at NXN). Instead, they went to Runninglane. Won that. Came back this year and got 3rd at NXR SW. They will likely be in the top 8 at NXN. Colorado girls teams have won Runninglane the past 4 years after getting left out after NXR SW. It can propel you forward. Besides, it’s not far from Knoxville to Huntsville.
I watched an interview with a committee member and at one point he mentioned the conference call. it sounds like there was a lot of discussion on which 4th girls team should go. lots of back and fourth. doesn't sound like it was an easy choice for them
Look at the way they presented the CIF merge results. The team in fourth actually ran the course faster than the third team.
Strange that the presentation of facts would garner downvotes, no? Santiago did run the course faster than J Serra.
“Placement” within the region makes more sense to use finishing time to determine that, rather than how a school finishes in a smaller, weaker division.
Look at the way they presented the CIF merge results. The team in fourth actually ran the course faster than the third team.
Strange that the presentation of facts would garner downvotes, no? Santiago did run the course faster than J Serra.
Contact Nike and ask that future meets be ranked by aggregate time, instead of points in the CA merge. It's not like there is a tradition for scoring meets by points.
Look at the way they presented the CIF merge results. The team in fourth actually ran the course faster than the third team.
Strange that the presentation of facts would garner downvotes, no? Santiago did run the course faster than J Serra.
The issue with the CIF merge isn’t that they don’t use time, but that they merge 121 teams into a single race. You will never see a NXR with anywhere near that many teams. And a field this big kills a team like Santiago that has a weak 4 and 5 runner (who accounted for 399 points in the merged results). In a normal field size, the impact of those 4 and 5 would be less, and Santiago might even finish ahead of JSerra in points, or at least be much closer. The merge needs to only include the top 20-25 teams to make it fair with the other regions.
Strange that the presentation of facts would garner downvotes, no? Santiago did run the course faster than J Serra.
The issue with the CIF merge isn’t that they don’t use time, but that they merge 121 teams into a single race. You will never see a NXR with anywhere near that many teams. And a field this big kills a team like Santiago that has a weak 4 and 5 runner (who accounted for 399 points in the merged results). In a normal field size, the impact of those 4 and 5 would be less, and Santiago might even finish ahead of JSerra in points, or at least be much closer. The merge needs to only include the top 20-25 teams to make it fair with the other regions.
If they couldnt make it through the merger then they probably wouldnt do well at a bigger invite. Those 4 & 5 would be at the back of the pack, getting displaced by top teams' #7
Bridgeland and Santiago were better options for an at large than Carmel
Eh, I’m not so sure about Santiago. They got demolished in the merge, even by JSerra. Blade and Combe completely carried the team at state. And it’s not like Blade and Combe are missing out, they’re going to NXN as individuals.
Bridgeland and Santiago were better options for an at large than Carmel
Eh, I’m not so sure about Santiago. They got demolished in the merge, even by JSerra. Blade and Combe completely carried the team at state. And it’s not like Blade and Combe are missing out, they’re going to NXN as individuals.
Yeah. If Corona qualified it would have allowed two more “next in line” individuals from California to go to NXN, both of which are nonseniors so they will have another chance next year.
The issue with the CIF merge isn’t that they don’t use time, but that they merge 121 teams into a single race. You will never see a NXR with anywhere near that many teams. And a field this big kills a team like Santiago that has a weak 4 and 5 runner (who accounted for 399 points in the merged results). In a normal field size, the impact of those 4 and 5 would be less, and Santiago might even finish ahead of JSerra in points, or at least be much closer. The merge needs to only include the top 20-25 teams to make it fair with the other regions.
I'm pretty certain they do a Power Merge for NXN purposes. After merging all teams, they take the top 20(?) and do another merge. Seems appropriate and fair.
Vandegrift does a very strange slow start and move up concept that is problematic on the Nike South course. It is very difficult to pass there and this strategy backfired bigtime.
The course penalizes slow starters and may have also affected Bridgeland Girls normal 4.
I don’t think this strategy will work at the NXN course either.
It didn’t for American Fork. It cost them the national title
Vandegrift does a very strange slow start and move up concept that is problematic on the Nike South course. It is very difficult to pass there and this strategy backfired bigtime.
The course penalizes slow starters and may have also affected Bridgeland Girls normal 4.
I don’t think this strategy will work at the NXN course either.
It didn’t for American Fork. It cost them the national title
If there was another 1k in the race, I think American Fork would’ve won. But it’s not a 6K, it’s a 5k. Probably one of the worst strategies is doing what AF did and going out extremely slow and trying to move up. It really doesn’t work to be in last place at the start of the race.
Eh, I’m not so sure about Santiago. They got demolished in the merge, even by JSerra. Blade and Combe completely carried the team at state. And it’s not like Blade and Combe are missing out, they’re going to NXN as individuals.
Yeah. If Corona qualified it would have allowed two more “next in line” individuals from California to go to NXN, both of which are nonseniors so they will have another chance next year.
Santiago's 4-7 are interchangable and they needed 2 of those 4 to step up, but it didn't happen. Opened the door up for JSerra and they earned it without a doubt. If there was ever a year for California to have 4 teams at NXN, it was this year. After Woodbridge, who would have thought Ventura and Santiago would be the odd teams out this year? Health and depth were the difference for the teams that moved on, but it seemed mathematically impossible for a team with 2 low sticks like Blade and Combe to still not get the invite. Glad to see them move on, along with Sadie, Thomsen and Errington.
For funsies, does Nike score the regional individuals as teams? That will be cool to see how the Cali girls compare to the other regions.
For individuals, if Santiago would have gotten a team invite, Isabella Ramirez and Carol Dye would have gotten the next individual invites, and Summer Wilson would have been 3rd in line if either of them declined (who in the world would decline NXN, besides Chiara Daily?). Wilson has had a stellar season, and is definitely the best talent who won't be there. Watch for her to win Footlocker, though!
Shouldn´t being senior heavy discourage teams from having an autoqualifier? it seems like a team like Captials from the Southeast with only one senior, their fourth, would have done better in that area, since they would get experience this year and come back next year with a chance at doing better. I don´t think the southeast deserved a bid, but it just seems to me like younger teams would get preference since they can run it multiple years.
Future performance? This is a strange way of thinking. It doesn't matter if a team has 7 seniors or 7 7th graders.
Sorry if I was misleading, I was replying to someone else who said that it´s good that Glendora got a bid because they were all seniors, but I forgot to quote the original post. I don´t think that age is a factor for the committee, but if it was I would think that having an old team would hurt your chances.