Regarding the shoes, it’s getting ridiculous.. we should just put wheels on them because that’s where it’s going. the slope was always slippery and it was known. should have been outlawed and regulated years ago.
I’m not sure what she’s on and for all I know she’s clean, but it also would not surprise me if it’s EPO, Nandrolone, and Testosterone etc.
Another reason that this performance hasn't ruined the marathon: she probably won't win her next race. Elite running is about racing - who wins. The next time Chepngetich races Hassan, who would you back? My money would still be on the 2:13 woman. Times are all well and good, but what really matters is who wins and who wins when it really matters. Hassan is still the most fearsome female marathoner on the planet, even after this 2:09 performance.
The best thing about the marathon is that you never know lol
Kipchoge made winning so easy that we thought that its the same for everyone
Hassan lost Tokyo( 4th) this year to Kebede
Obiri won Boston lost at the Olympics
Jepchirchir won london in a WR and faded to 15th at the olympics
Chepngetich was 9th in london and 1st in Chicago
the marathon is such a Russian roulette type race that u never know who will win with surety
Assefa thus far is the only consistent one with 2nd places in London and the Olympics LOL
You don't know they were clean. Was Kratochvilova clean? Or Flojo? Ben Johnson? Nor do you know that doping is in a "better state" today. I'm sure it is - but not the way you meant. It will be immeasurably more sophisticated - and ahead of antidoping.
I know who’s trustworthy and who is not.
It is incredibly more difficult to use drugs than it was decades ago. That’s why Valerie Adams, the best women’s shot putter the world has ever known, is equal 183rd on the all time list.
It isn't incredibly more difficult to use drugs than in former decades. Drug use is more sophisticated than antidoping, it is always ahead - and this from the former head of WADA. Doping is like the shoes, but advancing more continuously and is way more scientifically advanced. There are few variations in the supershoes but the estimated illicit drugs available are over hundred at any one time and most are undetectable. If it were not so sports doping wouldn't be the billion dollar black market it has been reliably estimated to be.
Valerie Adams may well have been one of the few top athletes that chose not to go down that path - or she would have likely been the world record holder, like Crouser, who I wouldn't put money on being clean.
Sisson’s 2:18:29 is the 2nd fastest marathon of all time by a non East-African woman after Paula Radcliffe. So I don’t think Americans are **so** terrible at the marathon, but genetically and socially/culturally the US is already at a disadvantage compared to Kenya and Ethiopia.
I’ve always held the view that the athletes should be considered clean until they are found unequivocally to have doped and to try and sort out the cheaters from the honest ones is impossible and plays into our biases. That being said, I’ve struggled since yesterday with this result. Rather than being thrilled, I’m sort of depressed. To witness one of the greatest performances ever, maybe the greatest, and to come away depressed. What a bummer.
Same. It’s sad. I’m just going to take a long break from caring about pro running. Between rampant drug cheats in the distances, showboating sprinters, and Diamond League moving to Flotrack, I’m out indefinitely. Maybe I’ll try again in 2028. For now, it’s all about D2/D3 college and HS results (D1 has also jumped the shark for me.)
Sisson’s 2:18:29 is the 2nd fastest marathon of all time by a non East-African woman after Paula Radcliffe. So I don’t think Americans are **so** terrible at the marathon, but genetically and socially/culturally the US is already at a disadvantage compared to Kenya and Ethiopia.
I’ve always held the view that the athletes should be considered clean until they are found unequivocally to have doped and to try and sort out the cheaters from the honest ones is impossible and plays into our biases. That being said, I’ve struggled since yesterday with this result. Rather than being thrilled, I’m sort of depressed. To witness one of the greatest performances ever, maybe the greatest, and to come away depressed. What a bummer.
I remember watching Armstrong in, I think it was his 4th tour win but don’t remember exactly, ride a stage after coming back from a sickness. He went on to win the stage and demolished everyone. There was a point in the race that he effortlessly made a break and left everyone behind. Immediately I thought “he’s doping.” Up until that point I had never suspected him of anything. I’d been a fan of his since he first won WC in ‘93 and never thought for a second he was on anything. But watching him effortlessly leave a bunch of the world’s elite in the dust after being sick, I knew it was too good to be true. For years people would bring up his name and how great he was. I would just sit there and think “he’s doping.” I actually thought it would never come to light even though it was obvious.
Sisson’s 2:18:29 is the 2nd fastest marathon of all time by a non East-African woman after Paula Radcliffe. So I don’t think Americans are **so** terrible at the marathon, but genetically and socially/culturally the US is already at a disadvantage compared to Kenya and Ethiopia.
Liliya Shobukhova has run 2:18:20 with super blood in the rather hot 2011 edition of Chicago (that Paula Radcliffe allegedly had naturally lol). Sisson of course has super shoes.
I’ve always held the view that the athletes should be considered clean until they are found unequivocally to have doped and to try and sort out the cheaters from the honest ones is impossible and plays into our biases. That being said, I’ve struggled since yesterday with this result. Rather than being thrilled, I’m sort of depressed. To witness one of the greatest performances ever, maybe the greatest, and to come away depressed. What a bummer.
I remember watching Armstrong in, I think it was his 4th tour win but don’t remember exactly, ride a stage after coming back from a sickness. He went on to win the stage and demolished everyone. There was a point in the race that he effortlessly made a break and left everyone behind. Immediately I thought “he’s doping.” Up until that point I had never suspected him of anything. I’d been a fan of his since he first won WC in ‘93 and never thought for a second he was on anything. But watching him effortlessly leave a bunch of the world’s elite in the dust after being sick, I knew it was too good to be true. For years people would bring up his name and how great he was. I would just sit there and think “he’s doping.” I actually thought it would never come to light even though it was obvious.
Yet so many argue here that you cannot "see" doping in front of you. But if you know the sport, it leaps out.
Or look at the results of the Tour de France from the 1990s. Or listen to interviews with people who took EPO and T. Tyler Hamilton can tell you what it feels like when you can ride so hard that the peleton can't keep up. Drugs work. We know they work because we see them in medicine every day. If they work in medicine, why wouldn't they work in sport?
Not a very compelling link when we are talking about actual competition.
"However, there is limited consensus in the literature regarding its true performance-enhancing effects. In fact, some studies suggest there is no conclusive evidence;"
"Overall, there is low-to-moderate quality evidence suggesting rHuEPO may be more beneficial than placebo in enhancing haematological parameters, pulmonary measures, maximal power output and time to exhaustion independent of dosage. However, these improvements are almost exclusively seen during maximal exercise intensities, which may be less relevant to athletic competition conditions."
"Due to heterogeneity among trials, more high-quality randomised controlled trials with larger sample sizes in conditions that mirror actual competition are needed to further elucidate these effects."
But no, I am not going to get into a "is the earth really round?" debate with you guys.
Nobody (besides you two) in the world cycling or running doubts that EPO "works" and even if half the cyclists in the Tour de France circa 1999 were too dumb to explain how it works, it still did.
I can't explain how my cellphone works either, but I know it does. Science is like that, the proof is in the pudding.
Of course the new WR can seem unbilievable, but one of the reasons is that the most part of runners (and coaches...) don't have a real idea about which percentage of speed of the PB of 10000m is possible to maintain in a full marathon when the athlete is specifically prepared for the full distance (I mean REALLY prepared, not to THINK that is prepared.....).
I want to give PB of European athletes (after this we can speak of African, but I prefer to stay in the field of western runners) for 10000m, HM and Marathon, with the percentage of speed athletes are able to run comparing with the speed for the marathon.
HM / 10000m : 97% - Mar / 10000m : 93.4% - Mar / HM : 96.3 %
We can see that the average of speed specialized marathon runners can develop (compared with their PB in 10000m) can be about 93%, while the percentage of speed used for running HM (from 10000m) is around 97%, and HM-Marathon is 96%.
This means that athletes preparing marathon, comparing their PB in 10000m and the possible PB in marathon, can run with proper training in the following times :
28'00" (94% = 2'58"1) in 2:05 - 2:06
28'20" (94% = 3'00"2) in 2:06:30 - 2:07
28'40" (94% = 3'02"3) in 2:08 - 2:08:30
29'00" (94% = 3'04"5) in 2:09 - 2:09:30
29'20" (94% = 3'06"6) in 2:10:30 - 2:11
29'40" (94% = 3'08"7) in 2:12:30 - 2:13:0
30'00" (94% = 3'10"8) in 2:14 - 2:15
This means that in many Countries (particularly in US and UK) at the moment there is not a correct idea of the performances athletes can achieve, according their PB in 10 km, if start to do proper training, without thinking that workouts like 3 times 3 miles at Marathon Pace with 1 mile recovery at 80% of MP are something specific : if there is specific speed, the volume of training and the length of the workout is not enough ; if on the contrary length and volume are enough, the speed is too slow and it's not possible to have metabolic adaptation to the distance at given pace.
Dear Sir Renato!!!!!!!! Then why does Ruth not fit into your projection???? Her 2:09 marathon requires her to have a 29:20 10k PB but she is slower by 1min??????
What's going on here sir????????
Even the greatest aerobic engine (greater than Jakob) Kenenisa Bekele only runs at a low 91%?????
Or look at the results of the Tour de France from the 1990s. Or listen to interviews with people who took EPO and T. Tyler Hamilton can tell you what it feels like when you can ride so hard that the peleton can't keep up. Drugs work. We know they work because we see them in medicine every day. If they work in medicine, why wouldn't they work in sport?
Not a very compelling link when we are talking about actual competition.
"However, there is limited consensus in the literature regarding its true performance-enhancing effects. In fact, some studies suggest there is no conclusive evidence;"
"Overall, there is low-to-moderate quality evidence suggesting rHuEPO may be more beneficial than placebo in enhancing haematological parameters, pulmonary measures, maximal power output and time to exhaustion independent of dosage. However, these improvements are almost exclusively seen during maximal exercise intensities, which may be less relevant to athletic competition conditions."
"Due to heterogeneity among trials, more high-quality randomised controlled trials with larger sample sizes in conditions that mirror actual competition are needed to further elucidate these effects."
Look Mr PD King, I had raised red flags about the way you reason and persuade since the winter of last year alright and you are still at it!!!!!!! When are you going to cease from such diabolical ways????
I remember watching Armstrong in, I think it was his 4th tour win but don’t remember exactly, ride a stage after coming back from a sickness. He went on to win the stage and demolished everyone. There was a point in the race that he effortlessly made a break and left everyone behind. Immediately I thought “he’s doping.” Up until that point I had never suspected him of anything. I’d been a fan of his since he first won WC in ‘93 and never thought for a second he was on anything. But watching him effortlessly leave a bunch of the world’s elite in the dust after being sick, I knew it was too good to be true. For years people would bring up his name and how great he was. I would just sit there and think “he’s doping.” I actually thought it would never come to light even though it was obvious.
Yet so many argue here that you cannot "see" doping in front of you. But if you know the sport, it leaps out.
Yeah man my dear!!!!! Always trust the instincts of a proven high-performance expert, or, well experienced fanboy of the sport. Instincts are everything, they are the embryo and heartbeat of success, IQ, creativity, passion etc you feeling me dear????
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