Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
How do you know what Halberg was doing in the mile -- did you talk to him?
Rather than relying on your fungible recollections of what you want to believe, and want us to believe, let's pull out some real facts from the historical archives of 1962, in the words of Arthur Lydiard himself, and see whose "delusions verge on insanity".
In my 1962 copy of "Run to the Top", I can find a schedule for a 3-miler. The Lydiard schedule for the 3-miler 12 weeks before "THE RACE":
Wednesday: Run a mile at half-effort;
Thursday: Run a mile at quarter-effort;
It isn't until 6 weeks before "THE RACE":
Saturday: Compete in a one-mile race.
What is "half-effort" and "quarter-effort" you ask? From the same book, for a 3:55 runner:
half-effort is 4:08, or 13 seconds slower
quarter-effort is 4:15, or 20 seconds slower
So Lydiard would have the 3:30 1500m runner running 3:42-3:43 in April, 12 weeks before the Olympics.
By comparison, Cheptegei ran a 3:37 at altitude. And you are calling it slow.
We can see that even Lydiard 60 years ago wouldn't train his athletes with a mile race, at mile pace, 12 weeks before the Olympics.
Maybe now you can see why I place so much emphasis on facts, and real-world observations.
I have read Halberg's autobiography. I am familiar with his career. He did not run shorter races as though they were merely a fraction of a longer race. None of Lydiard's stable did.
A race is not interval training for a longer event. It is its own event. One of the obvious reasons for that is that the other competitors are running it as an event, a race - and to win it if they can. Interval training is not a race. A race is its own form of training - if it is training. A shorter event, like a mile for a 3 miler, is not to establish pace for a 3 mile but to build up speed. It is therefore run faster than a 3 mile.
You are wrong, as usual, about Lydiard. The passage you refer to in "Run To The Top" shows you don't even understand what you are reading. A training mile at 3/4 effort, as Lydiard described, is not a mile race. 3/4 effort for a mile is also only as it relates to a mile; it is not 3 mile pace - or intended to be. When Lydiard prescribed a mile race for training he did not say it was interval training or to be run at a given percentage of effort. That was what prior training was for. On that basis, Cheptegei's 3.37 was not interval training for the 5k; it was a 1500 race - and as fast as he was capable of on the day.
It is extraordinary that you believe you are describing Lydiard's training when, even with the words right in front of you, you have it completely screwed up. Your "facts and real observations" have all the intellectual content of a fart. You are clueless about what athletes are actually doing, whether it is in their training or racing. If this board has a village idiot, you are it.
I see a lot of self-projection in your insults.
First and foremost -- absolutely no one is talking about interval training except you.
Second, Cheptegei's 1500m race, was not the race you describe, but a training preparation for the Olympics, as Cheptegei told us in his own words.
What did I say wrong about Lydiard? I said that Lydiard's athletes were not running the 1 mile at 1 mile race pace, 12 weeks before "THE RACE". The schedules and fractional efforts only confirm that. Rather than showing me wrong, you just confirmed I was right. Lydiard didn't call it 3 mile race pace, but instinctively, by specifying the fractional efforts, he was having them run in practice at a much slower SPECIFIC 3-mile race pace for 1 mile. Only after 6 weeks did they race at full effort.
Maybe you read Halberg's autobiography, maybe not. No way to tell if you don't quote anything specific. Did he say how fast was he running 1 mile 12 weeks before the Olympics?
In Cheptegei's own words, this "race" was not only a race, but a training that was his first speed test in preparation for the Olympics run at 105% (speed) of his 5000m target race pace. As Cheptegei explained in his own words, he was happy with the race because he ran his 5000m/10000m pace.
I know you refuse to believe the facts in front of you, pretending they mean something else, but I have to side with spoken and written words Cheptegei and Lydiard.