Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

Harper Lynch wrote:

With the caveat that this not inside information, I am surprised it took so long for people to make this connection. Leslie was clearly Hunter's guy and did not match the Tinman ethos. Honestly it is pretty impressive how he was able to pivot from coaching a team that got dead last in Pac 12 XC to heading a popular fledgling pro team in one year. He was able to convince a group of guys to ditch a coach who coaches them for little money and that their team is named after, and it only took six months. If his time helming this group doesn't work out he should go into sales.

A lot of Tinman's personal history, going back years, is lamenting that coaching gigs often go to people based on how fast they used to run, not their actual coaching credentials. He has always had a chip on his shoulder as a coach because of the natural bias from not being a very fast runner and rightfully so. Tom goes to tons of talks and clinics and has encyclopedic knowledge about ex phys and running history. Whatever you think about him personally or as a coach, he has earned his status as a prominent coach.

Now he has had a guy with no real coaching credentials usurp control of his team from him. That probably doesn't sit well with Tinman, especially after moving his family and helping the Hunters as much as he did. Rojo wants to say there is no drama but that is only true if you ignore how he was canned. The "why" can be debated but the "how" seems unprofessional if not heartless.

Harper Lynch wrote:

With the caveat that this not inside information, I am surprised it took so long for people to make this connection. Leslie was clearly Hunter's guy and did not match the Tinman ethos. Honestly it is pretty impressive how he was able to pivot from coaching a team that got dead last in Pac 12 XC to heading a popular fledgling pro team in one year. He was able to convince a group of guys to ditch a coach who coaches them for little money and that their team is named after, and it only took six months. If his time helming this group doesn't work out he should go into sales.

A lot of Tinman's personal history, going back years, is lamenting that coaching gigs often go to people based on how fast they used to run, not their actual coaching credentials. He has always had a chip on his shoulder as a coach because of the natural bias from not being a very fast runner and rightfully so. Tom goes to tons of talks and clinics and has encyclopedic knowledge about ex phys and running history. Whatever you think about him personally or as a coach, he has earned his status as a prominent coach.

Now he has had a guy with no real coaching credentials usurp control of his team from him. That probably doesn't sit well with Tinman, especially after moving his family and helping the Hunters as much as he did. Rojo wants to say there is no drama but that is only true if you ignore how he was canned. The "why" can be debated but the "how" seems unprofessional if not heartless.

lauren22 wrote:

I run with Tom in Boulder and I also did the sessions with TME. I totally understand changing coaches- it is part of sport. New stimuli and new training methods often bring better results. However, I saw how much Tom cared about this team. He drove 30 min to practice, 2hr practice, 30 min home 2-3x a week for these guys...I felt the energy when I was at practice and it was very special.

Where did Tom go wrong? They paid him very poorly and Tom should have set himself up better by having a clear contract in place before he made the move to Boulder.

The way they left was terrible. Drew never came to Tom. They all disconnected their accounts from Final Surge--0 conversations. I believe they sent Conor to tell Tom that the team was no longer working with him. I always thought they were a bunch of douche-bags from social media before I met them. Once I started working with Tom, I ran with some of the guys 2x a week (Syd, Jeff, Reed, Jamiane) and I actually saw they had depth and were good people. I am disappointed in those guys because I know that they know they are wrong. But what choice do they have? They either stay with Drew, the ring leader, and still have a spot on TME...or actually stand for themselves/stay with Tom and then have no team.

have to say it..... wrote:

OK Mrs. Schwartz,

First of all, I believe it's really you posting. I've never really known anything about the coach, the group, the situation, the YouTube scene, etc. I just saw the thread and it looked like interesting reading - and is it ever!

It amazes me that the following hasn't been mentioned: you misspell 'advice' with an 's' - 'advise'. This is something JS would do, and that comparison is appropriate given that he is an alleged coach trying to drum up $ with an internet presence. Cookie-cutter plans that don't vary significantly from runner to runner, no actual contact between coach and athlete, fixed pricing as opposed to a percentage of winnings or overall earnings -the similarities are striking. I'll be the first to admit that there is a difference between Tinman and the Magic Wizard: the former actually makes money doing it.

And that's one of the flaws in your reasoning. If any given jogger must pay $200 a month for the Tinman services - that number was quoted by a poster, (I admit I personally have no idea) and several of them claim to have used the service - how many of those do you need to live comfortablely? A hundred subscribers would get you close to a 1/4 million a year. Half that is still into the 6 figures - from just that one income source. This doesn't include the day job (teaching, according to posters - again, my only knowledge of you is from this thread) or Hunter money during the time it was flowing.

More importantly, though, on the topic of online coaching, it doesn't matter where you are. You can do it anywhere with a solid internet connection. Was there something important about Idaho? If your answer is:

"Where we live now is far more expensive than where we used to live,"

well, I'll accept that. But the question must be asked:

If Tinman coaching is remote, couldn't you have been in Idaho (or wherever) the whole time? If the coach isn't literally standing there, what good does it do to be in Boulder?

So my confusion may be explained thus:

It doesn't matter much where you live since there is a significant income stream via the internet. In this case, moving doesn't seem like much of a financial hardship. (The cost of living could be a factor as I have admitted, but I must point out I don't remember reading a mention of such in your long post.) If there is employment opportunity in the new location, it just doesn't seem like anyone is really hung out to dry.

Alternatively, since internet coaching can be done from anywhere (JS claims to coach in Kenya from Sweden), why did you move in the first place? Unless there's something important you are doing that requires being physically in Boulder, why couldn't the whole racket have been continued wherever you lived before, or better yet, wherever you prefer to live?

So, it seems to me that either you didn't need to move, or it wasn't any great tragedy that you did. Set me straight if neither of these is true - meaning, both statements are flawed.

Last, with all due disrespect, have you considered employment? You personally, as opposed to your husband. That is advice (this is noun and is pronounced with an 's' at the end) for you in your time of dire need. I can advise (this is a verb and is pronounced with a 'z' at the end) other alternatives if you consider working unacceptable.

LappedMiler wrote:

RunnerConnection wrote:

You are obviously a fan of Tinman Elite or perhaps one of them. By the way my post isn't an opinion, it is what really did happen. Why would I take the time to write and share this information? To end all the speculations and assumptions that people out there think or say are happening. Sometimes the truth hurts, but I'm not going to post information that is not true.

Why the f*** would the wife of Tinman post anything? Because "the wife of Tinman" is either really Tinman sniping as he licks his wounds, or it IS his wife spouting whatever the hell she wants, in blind, loyal support of her husband.

Personally, I think RunnerConnection is just Tinman airing his dirty laundry, which is pretty cowardly and disgusting. And so is a wife's posting of the dirty laundry.

But, what the heck, let's just say that you ARE his wife. Either way, what you posted is shameful, reactionary, self-serving, and cowardly.

Hinting that that nice Drew Hunter kid was corrupted by his UNNAMED teammate is pathetic b*tching, and there is NO GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE THAT, OR ANYTHING ELSE YOU WRITE AS THE ALLEGED TRUTH. Yep, it may be true, and then again, IT MAY BE LIKE MOST DIVORCE CASES EVER. Or like most court cases, of all kinds, ever, where sworn testamony, sometimes on both sides, AIN'T THE FRIGGIN' TRUTH. "But why would a person lie on the witness stand?" you would ask? Are you naive, or what? Some things are said because the person isn't even aware of the other side of the argument!

The mudslinging has really begun, hasn't it, RunnerConnection, I mean Tinman?

A good number of readers will automatically believe what you wrote because they're easily duped, or they will choose to believe anything which paints the Tinmen in a bad light. If Melania Trump says that her husband was a victim of voter fraud, a good number of readers will automatically believe it. This isn't much different. So just because you claim that what you wrote is true, we're supposed to take it as gospel? ? Not in a million years!

I HAVE NEVER MET ANY TINMEN, OR TOM. I HAVE NO AFFILIATION WITH THE TINMEN. DON'T LIVE WITHIN 2000 MILES OF BOULDER. I once saw Dru run at a track meet. Didn't meet him. THEY MAY BE THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF PUNK FRAT BOYS THIS SIDE OF ANIMAL HOUSE, for all I know.

I'll say that anyone who goes public in a "he said, she said" reaction to perceived (and real) hurt - as in YOU - is deserving of a few harsh words. I feel VERY sorry for your husband, and your family., but I'll go on refusing to believe any of the dirty laundry you post on this message board.

In fact, why don't you just stay off of this message board if you're only going to spout your b*tching vitriol and claim truths that are either lies, half-truths, or in-the-dark untruths? That goes for Tinman, too. I suspect that both Tinman and his wife are clueless on many aspects of the Tinman Elite story and what has transpired.

TO THE READERS: Don't believe everything you read! Or go ahead and believe my words, because I'm telling you they're true. No, the only truth is that almost everything you read on letsrun.com may be erroneous, or deceitful, or in some other way it may misinform you.