DiscoGary wrote:
L L wrote:
...
The investigation is the pursuit of justice.
...
No it isn't. This has nothing to do with justice, and therefore any push back against it isn't obstruction of justice.
I believe the federal trial going on in Virginia is proof that you are off your rocker, as will be the second Manafort trial coming down the road in DC. And all the other indictments and guilty pleas and cooperating witnesses.
agip wrote:
do you know the expression 'politics is about giving people permission to believe what they already believe?'
in this case Trump is just giving gary types a reason to ignore the mueller investigation and its findings. Trump is building an alternate reality for his base to live in. that tweet is just one more brick.
and it's working for Trump. No way his base will ever believe a single word from the Mueller indictment. They aren't interested in truth, law, rules, norms, facts. They want to roar out and own the libs. that's their politics.
If you want to understand the mind of a Trumpette, just think of a school shooter (SS) - they are basically one and the same mindset.
1) They are losers. They have always been losers. Nobody has ever respected them. They were always on the outside looking in, wishing that they were one of the cool kids.
2) They are victims, in their own minds, of an unjust world that has always victimized them. In some ways they are right. They were bullied at school. And the Trumpettes, fearful in their whites-only basements, have indeed been looked down upon for some time.
3) But they will teach those OTHERS. They will MAKE those OTHERS respect them.
4) Now is their time.
///
For Trumpettes, nothing could possibly have validated how right they were all along more than a fellow loser being in the WH. Without any doubt, Trump even running for POTUS was an act born of his desire to get even with the ELITES who have so despised him his entire life. For the SS, their time is when they walk into the classroom, guns drawn.
And nothing is more satisfying than watching those OTHERS cower in fear, impotent, as the SS takes aim at them. For Trumpettes, nothing is more satisfying than watching the ELITES, the LIBERALS, the MEDIA wail impotently and endlessly about Trump.
///
Trumpettes are the SS.
L L wrote:
I get the part how his tweets condition the thoughts of his followers.
But if you are making an obstruction of justice case against him, the tweets are basically documents of evidence.
The investigation is the pursuit of justice.
His tweet is an attempt to obstruct pursuit of that justice.
Yep. Just one thing in many that shows he obstructed justice. One of the reasons he will go down. He can't get out of his own way.
DiscoGary wrote:
L L wrote:
...
The investigation is the pursuit of justice.
...
No it isn't. This has nothing to do with justice, and therefore any push back against it isn't obstruction of justice.
That is an opinion that will not hold up. Obstruction of justice is a certainty. Why? Because he has obstructed justice.
Guy who says wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
I still say Trump will not resign. At the very least, he will need to be removed from the White House by force.
If you mean that he will have to be impeached and found guilty by the Senate then you may be correct.
If you mean that he might be impeached and found guilty by the Senate and would STILL refuse to vacate the office and the WH then you are certainly incorrect.
No, I mean the latter.
First I don't think he will ever resign. A resignation would be humiliating. To Trump, there is nothing more terrifying than public humiliation. So resignation is a non-starter.
Second, Trump would never accept the decision of congress to leave office. Again, the humiliation would be too much for him. He would think it better to stand and fight than to be told what to do by those losers in congress.
L L wrote:His tweet is an attempt to obstruct pursuit of that justice.
Or, Trump argues that Twitter is merely an entertainment platform where he posts bluster. This is the problem with law versus "not law."
Trump's Big Government liberal ways continue go grow. He is now demanding ID be used in any transaction as meaningless as buying groceries.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/399806-trump-falsely-claims-id-is-required-to-buy-groceriesThe point of strict voter ID regulations is to discourage moderate voters. Discouraging voters is part of a minority party strategy to remain in power.
DiscoGary wrote:
L L wrote:
If you were facing a potential obstruction of justice charge would you publicly ask the Attorney General to end an investigation that involves you?
I mean, if you were innocent of it?
If I were Trump, yes. Trump fights back against everyone who attacks him. The fact that he is fighting back against this corrupt witch hunt does not mean he's guilty.
Also, Manafort plead not guilty. He's fighting in court on a case that several prosecutors in the past have refused to prosecute because they didn't think they could win. If Mueller can't prove Manafort did something really heinous, then this whole charade comes crashing down.
Who were these other prosecutors? Did they have the evidence that Mueller has?
You are sort of right about one thing. If Mueller loses it will be a big dent in his credibility. Nothing would come crashing down, but it would hurt a lot.
The case against Manafort is pretty much a slam dunk. He signed fraudulent tax forms. The overwhelming evidence shows that he hid tens of millions of dollars from the government. His only defense is to blame his employee, Rick Gates. That's a pretty weak argument. Manafort was the boss. It's his own responsibility to know where his money comes from and how it gets reported as income on his tax return. Manafort signed his name to it.
But on the other hand, there is the old adage that you never know what a jury will do.
Fat hurts wrote:
Guy who says wrote:
If you mean that he will have to be impeached and found guilty by the Senate then you may be correct.
If you mean that he might be impeached and found guilty by the Senate and would STILL refuse to vacate the office and the WH then you are certainly incorrect.
No, I mean the latter.
First I don't think he will ever resign. A resignation would be humiliating. To Trump, there is nothing more terrifying than public humiliation. So resignation is a non-starter.
Second, Trump would never accept the decision of congress to leave office. Again, the humiliation would be too much for him. He would think it better to stand and fight than to be told what to do by those losers in congress.
remember that he never actually wanted to be president, that his real interest is right wing radio, and that he has quit dozens and dozens of businesses.
In real estate you learn that to survive you often have to cut your losses and run away. You borrowed too much and the mortgage is eating your cash flow? Dump it, dump it now. Take the loss and live to survive another day.
I could see a defeated trump, having lost the House in '18 and probably the senate in '20 just saying WTF I need to get the heck out of dodge and start doing what I'm good at again. Just declare victory, say he needs to go make thousands of jobs, say that he accomplished everything he wanted to accomplish, and off he goes.
He's quit many many things before.
Flagpole wrote:
Ok. Have you considered there may be a plea deal that includes him resigning? Plea could include things like...we won't prosecute you after you leave office, or we won't prosecute Don Jr., etc.?
As long as he is removed legally of course, I don't care whether he resigns or is forced to leave.
I've considered it. But I don't think Trump is afraid of prosecution.
He may pardon himself. The kids will get pardons no matter what.
Those are just a couple of the moves he could make. There are lots of cards Trump could play before a prosecutor ever got a hold of him.
Unfortunately, inciting riots is one of those cards and I don't think Trump would hesitate to play it.
Hani Saleem wrote:
DG - Looks like the Manafort judge is an Alt-Right snowflake! Doesn't like the word oligarch.
Look I even used FauxNews as a source so you know it's accurate.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/01/mueller-team-lectured-by-judge-in-manafort-case.html
The judge is right. The word "oligarch" is somewhat pejorative and prejudicial. It's useful as an accurate shorthand for reporting the news, but it probably doesn't belong in the court room.
agip wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
No, I mean the latter.
First I don't think he will ever resign. A resignation would be humiliating. To Trump, there is nothing more terrifying than public humiliation. So resignation is a non-starter.
Second, Trump would never accept the decision of congress to leave office. Again, the humiliation would be too much for him. He would think it better to stand and fight than to be told what to do by those losers in congress.
remember that he never actually wanted to be president, that his real interest is right wing radio, and that he has quit dozens and dozens of businesses.
In real estate you learn that to survive you often have to cut your losses and run away. You borrowed too much and the mortgage is eating your cash flow? Dump it, dump it now. Take the loss and live to survive another day.
I could see a defeated trump, having lost the House in '18 and probably the senate in '20 just saying WTF I need to get the heck out of dodge and start doing what I'm good at again. Just declare victory, say he needs to go make thousands of jobs, say that he accomplished everything he wanted to accomplish, and off he goes.
He's quit many many things before.
Trump has cut his losses before. That makes his overall balance sheet look better. And how he looks is the most important thing.
There is nothing about a resignation that would make Trump look good or feel good or help him make money. It's a non-starter.
Fat hurts wrote:
Hani Saleem wrote:
DG - Looks like the Manafort judge is an Alt-Right snowflake! Doesn't like the word oligarch.
Look I even used FauxNews as a source so you know it's accurate.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/01/mueller-team-lectured-by-judge-in-manafort-case.htmlThe judge is right. The word "oligarch" is somewhat pejorative and prejudicial. It's useful as an accurate shorthand for reporting the news, but it probably doesn't belong in the court room.
Yep. I agree with that.
Fat hurts wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Ok. Have you considered there may be a plea deal that includes him resigning? Plea could include things like...we won't prosecute you after you leave office, or we won't prosecute Don Jr., etc.?
As long as he is removed legally of course, I don't care whether he resigns or is forced to leave.
I've considered it. But I don't think Trump is afraid of prosecution.
He may pardon himself. The kids will get pardons no matter what.
Those are just a couple of the moves he could make. There are lots of cards Trump could play before a prosecutor ever got a hold of him.
Unfortunately, inciting riots is one of those cards and I don't think Trump would hesitate to play it.
Ok. Fair enough. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Also, I should have said Trump has "quietly" cut his losses before.
There is no way to quietly resign the presidency. The humiliation would kill him.
Flagpole wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
I've considered it. But I don't think Trump is afraid of prosecution.
He may pardon himself. The kids will get pardons no matter what.
Those are just a couple of the moves he could make. There are lots of cards Trump could play before a prosecutor ever got a hold of him.
Unfortunately, inciting riots is one of those cards and I don't think Trump would hesitate to play it.
Ok. Fair enough. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Yes, and let me also say that I hope I'm wrong.
A resignation would be the best thing that could happen to our country. I don't blame anyone for being optimistic.
One who understands wrote:
agip wrote:
do you know the expression 'politics is about giving people permission to believe what they already believe?'
in this case Trump is just giving gary types a reason to ignore the mueller investigation and its findings. Trump is building an alternate reality for his base to live in. that tweet is just one more brick.
and it's working for Trump. No way his base will ever believe a single word from the Mueller indictment. They aren't interested in truth, law, rules, norms, facts. They want to roar out and own the libs. that's their politics.
If you want to understand the mind of a Trumpette, just think of a school shooter (SS) - they are basically one and the same mindset.
1) They are losers. They have always been losers. Nobody has ever respected them. They were always on the outside looking in, wishing that they were one of the cool kids.
2) They are victims, in their own minds, of an unjust world that has always victimized them. In some ways they are right. They were bullied at school. And the Trumpettes, fearful in their whites-only basements, have indeed been looked down upon for some time.
3) But they will teach those OTHERS. They will MAKE those OTHERS respect them.
4) Now is their time.
///
For Trumpettes, nothing could possibly have validated how right they were all along more than a fellow loser being in the WH. Without any doubt, Trump even running for POTUS was an act born of his desire to get even with the ELITES who have so despised him his entire life. For the SS, their time is when they walk into the classroom, guns drawn.
And nothing is more satisfying than watching those OTHERS cower in fear, impotent, as the SS takes aim at them. For Trumpettes, nothing is more satisfying than watching the ELITES, the LIBERALS, the MEDIA wail impotently and endlessly about Trump.
///
Trumpettes are the SS.
there are two main trumper groups
1) regular repubs who will vote R no matter what. Country club repubs. Rich people.
2) deplorables. These guys are desperately trying to hang on to their status - they are the same people racist dems used to court - the ones who feel down but at least they aren't black people. At least they aren't mexicans! At least they aren't women! Trump feeds that need for status - Trump is one of them, and they know it. That's why they roar at his call to violence - they want to keep people below them and drag down the elites who remind the deplorables how low down they are. Eat the rich, basically. Except 'rich' in this case means 'libs, mexicans and blacks'
Fat hurts wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Ok. Fair enough. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Yes, and let me also say that I hope I'm wrong.
A resignation would be the best thing that could happen to our country. I don't blame anyone for being optimistic.
Anything Trump does that might be good for the country is purely accidental (and I know you aren't saying otherwise).
agip wrote:
...
there are two main trumper groups
...
2) deplorables. These guys are desperately trying to hang on to their status - they are the same people racist dems used to court - the ones who feel down but at least they aren't black people. At least they aren't mexicans! At least they aren't women! Trump feeds that need for status - Trump is one of them, and they know it. That's why they roar at his call to violence - they want to keep people below them and drag down the elites who remind the deplorables how low down they are. Eat the rich, basically. Except 'rich' in this case means 'libs, mexicans and blacks'
There is one main reason why Trump won, and this is it.
DiscoGary wrote:
agip wrote:
...
there are two main trumper groups
...
2) deplorables. These guys are desperately trying to hang on to their status - they are the same people racist dems used to court - the ones who feel down but at least they aren't black people. At least they aren't mexicans! At least they aren't women! Trump feeds that need for status - Trump is one of them, and they know it. That's why they roar at his call to violence - they want to keep people below them and drag down the elites who remind the deplorables how low down they are. Eat the rich, basically. Except 'rich' in this case means 'libs, mexicans and blacks'
There is one main reason why Trump won, and this is it.
Gary should run for Congress. His slogan would be Goobers for Gary!
Trump's belief that a picture ID is required to buy groceries illustrates one of things that is so odd about him. For a period of time, in the 70's, between college and becoming Trump, he lived in an apartment and probably went to grocery stores. At that time, people often paid with checks which required an ID. But it's been over 40 years since he was in a grocery store so he should have realized things might have changed. On the flight in, why didn't he tell someone about what he wanted to say about groceries and voting? Anybody on the plane would told him that all you have to do is swipe a card. It's not a big deal, but it made look out of touch.
If he has no interest in vetting his talking points what would he say in a private meeting with Putin.