First transgender athlete June Eastwood to compete in women’s DI XC this fall, has pbs of 1:55/3:50/14:38

New podcast: https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/08/zurich-preview-podcast/

Shame. Shame on her. Transgender is not a political issue, its a common sense issue. She can claim any gender she wants and im fine with it, but this business of competing with the wrong biological peers defies the reason we separated men and women in the first place. Its never been gender (dresses vs long pants?), its biology and inherent advantage--especially that conveyed by Testosterone (T). Thus, we call women's sports "protected". So shame on her for taking away legitimate records, same for Semenya. They know exactly what they are doing and its cheating. Same for all the boys in high school wrestling with girls because they want to be a different gender.

Good news, if she truly suppressed her T correctly, she will notice a difference for sure, and hopefully this will all just pass. She will just be good, not so elite anymore.

first of all, she's not the first

she may be the first to be out, which is a massive mistake but that's another matter

(and no I'm not telling you who was first, that would out them, the whole fact no-one knew says everything)

secondly, non-ops should non-compete

there is a HUGE difference in performance between true post-op and simple hormone suppression, it's like night and day

another problem is that a non-op can later chose to undo their transition and that is a disaster in ethics and motivation when there is an environment of competition with rewards and/or financial benefit

(by the way, the medication used for testosterone suppression by non-ops is banned by WADA as diuretics, in and out of competition, so it's not even allowed in the rules for them to use it in the first place, no-one ever addresses this)

finally, even with all of that said, everyone needs to chill-out, there is zero threat from this happening, there's no "reward" to being transgendered, there's not going to be hundreds of even dozens, just let them be and realize in the end it's just running and we are all stuck here on the same rock in a huge empty universe, costs nothing to be nice to each other

Exactly! What I really find interesting with all these comments is that those who think it is okay for Jonathan to compete as a women are coming from men. Those of us women commenting, the group who are actually effected by allowing men to compete as women, are strongly against this. No matter how many hormones he takes, what he cuts off or adds to his body, he can never truly become a woman. I don’t understand how so many people chose to completely ignore science.

recreational jogger53 wrote:

So rather than address my point you scuttle away and throw "this thread is about distance running".

Well, no it is not. It is about a transgender who thinks he can pass for a female as a collegiate runner.

I can use the same argument and demand that I can change my ethnicity from Asian to Caucasian based on cosmetic surgery.

Check mate.

jogger53, what exactly are you trying to prove? that this thread isn't about distance running but instead about your bizarre tirades? that your feelings about June's gender disqualify her from competing in races, despite the objective T and E level facts proving otherwise? funny how you accuse others of assuming when your posts are so wildly off topic and speculative that any rational person has to make leaps and bounds over gaps of understanding to understand even the most basic premises of your arguments.

june looks like a woman, talks like a woman, walks like a woman, and evidently per her recent workouts which show her to be in ~17 minute 5K shape, she runs like a woman as well. if you want to live your life as you choose, nobody is out here trying to give a single d a m n about what you do, and the fact that you totally falsely think everyone here is out to get you proves that you have a victimhood complex of the highest degree. please, update us in great detail on how your journey goes along the way in the replies here.[/quote]

I am showing how absurd it is to think a man can change himself to a woman and be accepted as a woman. Which in fact is impossible with today's technology.

By showing you how absurd it would be to change my ethnicity from Asian to Caucasian by cosmetic surgery with total disregard of blood type and genetic sequence is the same situation of a transgender thinking he can be a woman.

I do not know about the laws of transgender in CA., but if there are then they should be rightfully challenged and strike down in the courts because a transgender could never be equal to a woman. There are bad laws that are passed and strike down, so there is hope this one will too.

The future is coming, no matter what.

And a whole lot of you are having some real big problems with it. Have fun with that.

just to add, if she was completely transitioned post-op her 5K would not even break 16:30 at very best

however for now she might remain capable of closer to a 16:00, no way to know until it happens

both are good enough to be in DI, even a 17:00 would, but she certainly won't be in top 100 all-time

don't understand why people are freaking out, especially before there are any actual results

not my real name wrote:

RoJo/Gault: if you're keeping up on this, a suggestion. The article reads "and recently transitioned to female..."

May I suggest it might be more accurate to state "has begun transitioning to female." The "ed" at the end of the word "transition" suggests that the process is complete. This couldn't be further from the truth, as far as we know. Thus, "begun transitioning..." is a much more accurate descriptor of the events in play, at the moment.

thanks!

Your suggestions are a step in the right direction, but I'd go even farther. Humans can't change sex, so it's completely inaccurate for any journalist to say or suggest that Eastwood or anyone else can "transition" - or change or metamorphose - from male to female, or from female to male.

Female and male denote biological sex, which is a reproductive category that exists in material reality and can be observed and verified scientifically.

In sexually-reproducing animals and plants, female describes or denotes the reproductive group that can produce large gametes (in mammals, eggs or ova), whereas male describes or denotes the reproductive group that can produce the small gametes (in mammals, spermatozoa).

In many animals, including all mammals, females as a reproductive group do more than produce ova - females also have the capacity to conceive, gestate, birth and feed offspring. This requires females to have more - and far more complex - reproductive organs and reproductive physiology than males do.

Males like Eastwood can take all the androgen blockers and female hormones under the sun, just as females like Buck Angel can take all the testosterone in the world, but it still won't make them the opposite sex. With hormones, Eastwood can turn himself into a feminized male who looks (more or less) like a female (when his pants are on, that is) - just as Angel has become a masculinized female who looks more or less like a male (so long, that is, as Angel keeps pants on, something Angel's porn career often required not doing).

Even if Eastwood were to get surgery to make his genitals resemble female external genitalia, it still would not make him female. It would make him a male with surgically-altered genitals.

I believe everyone should be free to dress, behave and "express" in as feminine or masculine a way as they wish. Men who want to wear long hair, makeup, hose, heels, nail varnish, ladies lingerie and behave in ways their culture defines as feminine - go for it. Men have been doing this sort of thing forever. And men have been experimenting with taking female hormones since modern pharma made this possible. But none of these kinds of interventions turns, or will ever turn, a male human into a female one - meaning a member of the reproductive group that can produce ova and menstruate, and can conceive, gestate, and give birth to and breastfeed children. Just as no amount of interventions will ever make a female capable of producing sperm.

By saying Eastwood "recently transitioned to female" and making similar statements, LRC is endorsing the idea that humans can change sex, that males of our species can fulfill the female reproductive role(s) and vice versa, that being male or female has nothing to do with reproductive biology, and that an individual's subjective, unverifiable, mutable self-identity trumps scientifically verifiable material reality. Is this really LRC's position?

If this is not LRC's position, I'd suggest sticking to language that reflects accurate, fact-based reporting rather than buying into the pie-in-the-sky magical thinking of today's fashionably kewl ideology:

"Eastwood adopted a feminine gender identity in (date) and since (again date) began taking cross-sex hormones... " (and androgen blockers, if Eastwood is indeed taking them)

Or:

"Eastwood began claiming to be the opposite sex in (date) and since (date) began taking cross-sex hormones..."

Real question: why do you care so much? These long diatribes where you constantly hammer the same point. You have an issue with transgendered people. Period. You have used several registered names to spread the same message.

What are you missing in your life that you are filling in with this issue? You won’t leave your real name because you know, deep down, that your friends, family and work colleagues will judge the phuck out of you.

If I were a betting man, and I am, I’d say your homophobic and probably racist as well. Not a far stretch from your posts and their tone. You likely verbally abuse your wife and kids into submission based on your inability to just let other people have a different opinion.

You either need a hug or your ass kicked. Maybe both? Let me know....

Kevin

Oh and before you respond: yes. We all know I slept with my athletes and was fired. I will save you the time.

What’re all the physiological factors that affect distance running? I can think of, to name just a few, VO2 max, blood volume, mitochondria count, ankle stiffness, muscle mass, bone density, limb length(s), and neuromuscular pathways. I know some of these might overlap in their analyses. There’re many others I’m missing, I’m sure.

Which of the many factors, those above and otherwise, does biological sex affect? For example, are males biologically, in general, gifted with greater natural VO2 max? How many of these factors does testosterone (reduction) treatment change? How many does testosterone treatment leave unchanged?

vickyrn wrote:

Old identity: Jonathan Eastwood

http://archive.is/OXSph

New identity: June Eastwood

https://gogriz.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5219

He is... surprise... doing a women’s, gender and sexuality studies major.

Sorry but there is no difference between those athletes - all distance runners look like women.

How about we pause on this post, at least until Saturday say around noon?

trackgirl, do you honestly think nancy pelosi cares even one iota about transgender people? and i'm not talking about what her PR office puts out, i'm talking about the reality on the ground here where you look online and you see the only people that actually exist and are given mainstream coverage in this debate are TERF lefties. now that this happens to be the faux outrage du jour of the republicans at the moment only reinforces the fact that trans exclusionists are destroying women's sport forever from all sides while all dissenting opinions are forbidden.

This looks like confirmation that this poster is indeed a paid troll, recruited by Jonathan.

Jonathan hasn't done a full transition. He still has a dick and testicles producing testosterone. He doesn't have breasts or anything even resembling a vagina.

There is no proof that he has female levels of testosterone. We can't just take his word for it, because we know he is already lying about his sex.

Even if he temporarily acquired female levels of testosterone, he would still take a spot away from a girl, which is completely wrong.[/quote]

trackgirl, if you consider a surgical sex change to be necessary in the context of distance running, then please tell me even one athletic advantage incurred by the procedure. i'll be waiting. again because you seem to lack even the most basic intuition about facts and logic in this case, let me spell it out for you: having a penis, a long flapping appendage that adds wind resistance, makes you slower in distance running and it always has. the only thing about a penis that's actually fast is the testosterone associated with it, which can be fully suppressed to female levels as has been done in the case of June and as will be proven as soon as the ncaa gets their act together than institutes clear T+E level constraints and verification.

Dijon Gebremustard posts for truth, not for pay. maybe if you weren't indoctrinated by the far left you would know this.

wow, thanks for posting the totally reputable Science Organization known as livescience.com! don't you just love it when people who have never run a step in their lives all of a sudden know exactly how elite runners work and what's best for their bodies? that "article" (with over 39 advertisements and spyware trackers according to ublock, clearly designed to make money off viewers rather than communicate truth) only confirms what everyone already knows: men are faster than women because of testosterone, a chemical like any other in the body that can be regulated and measured. please, let's speak in terms of specific studies here rather than crack science blogs.

the cognitive dissonance with this comment is unreal. you go on and on whining about how you're so brave for "breaking Liberal party lines" coming out to letsrun.com and post trans exclusionism nonsense without realizing that you are a mainstream lefty and your opinions are exactly what the establishment left wants you to think. you're not special or unique, you're just another NPC that repeat the same disproven talking points over and over as you and your crew here have repeatedly shown.

again, you totally ignore all nuance with this argument perhaps because you're incapable of understanding anything beyond a surface-level meaning. i'll break it down again: Men are faster than women. why are men faster than women? do you think the magical Y chromosome immediately subtracts 1:30 from your 5K time beginning straight out of the womb? obviously not, it's because male organs produce Testosterone which is by all accounts the chemical that differentiates male performances from female performances. if testosterone is kept to sane female levels as the NCAA will have to monitor now that this issue is out in the open, then guess what, someone assigned male at birth can go out and be on an equal playing ground with women runners in distance races.

the entire basis of the Semenya argument is to convince the IAAF that "testosterone isn't a performance enhancer". the reason that they do this is to emphasize that Caster should not be taking T suppression pills despite the fact that she produces male levels of testosterone. it's all spelled out very clearly in the court filing i posted here two months ago:

I am Sam, you say this yet you continue to parrot their lawyer's points verbatim here. it seems to be a theme with you that you claim to be on one side of an argument while your actions and positions say the exact opposite. it's the classic sign of someone who's been brainwashed.

people like you always say things like "advantages you have had" but are never specific, because they know that upon further inspection these "advantages" pertaining to distance running are, actually, only direct resultants from testosterone, and if testosterone and estrogen are regulated, people like June can compete with women on an even playing field, if not at a disadvantage from having male body parts without the testosterone needed to make them function optimally.

If physical attributes and prior training based on enhanced ability due to testosterone were not important, then average males would simply have the same performance as average females with reduction in testosterone[/quote]

you're finally starting to get it. yes, testosterone makes men fast. yes, the lack of testosterone makes women slow. any other "factor" brought up by trans exclusionists here along the lines of "bone density" is LRC armchair science and actually only serves to hurt men due to the extra weight.

by the way, none of this applies at all to the semenya situation, something that you don't seem to get by comparing the two. semenya need to take T suppression to compete against women but whines like a baby saying that she shouldn't have to. meanwhile here we have someone, June, that actually is willing and able to take T suppression, and the reaction of leftists like you is to condemn and harass. it's almost as if you don't actually care about the facts and data of the situation, but only want something to complain about.

this is the exact opposite of my point. you are no different than any other leftist. the mainstream left position is to exclude transgender people from society. just because you don't sugar coat it as much as they do doesn't make you any different.

good to know that another Rossi troll, truly created in the great OG Mike Rossi's image, is here to impose upon us all exactly how they plan to exclude trans women from distance running and destroy women's sport as we know it forever. this post shows that you are clearly here to politically strategize and conspire and are not actually interested in having an honest conversation.

here are my Rules for Responding to RossiCheated:

1. When someone says, “No, we’re talking about women’s sports.,” just respond, “No, you pray every day for the destruction of women's sports and the way that you do this is by deflecting the conversation away from distance running (which is what this thread is about) onto other BS issues like what bathroom June will use and white people who become black.” Then make your fact-based argument that testosterone is the reason that men are faster than women, and other "advantages" peddled by the other side are actually disadvantages that make men slower.

you are absolutely correct, and that's also the reason why it's only fair for June to compete with women. Testosterone, in case you weren't aware, can be suppressed to normal female levels via human means, and June's running logs show she has gradually gone from a 14 minute 5K runner to a mid-17 minute 5K shape at best due to T suppression. a 17-minute 5K runner is not going to take away any legitimate records any time soon. where you're wrong in this argument is rather than taking any nuanced opinion and assuming the good faith of others, you wrongly assume bad faith and don't care at all to change the NCAA regulations to require specific T+E limits and verification. instead of doing that, you'd rather attack someone's character for being who they are and competing in distance running.

thank you, why register. your points are exactly the type of discussion that we should be having here, a way to include people that is fair for women, rather than constant denialism and disrespect. we should definitely speak up about unbanning the T suppression non-op medication, do you have any more details on this?

the facts and logic that the "gender critical" crowd always ignores is that testosterone and estrogen, the two human sex hormones, are the primary determinants in distance running athletic ability. there have been transgender people for years that, because they "pass" like june does, have been living their lives and competing in sport with female levels of T+E without any issue.

another lie from jogger53. it's very possible, and it can be done by only altering two vital chemicals in the human body: testosterone and estrogen, which June happens to already be doing. transgender people have existed long before you were born and still continue to exist today without any issue, because they pass and the faux outrage of the left makes this issue somehow "topical". and guess what jogger53, a simple search would show that in just about every state, even the most conservative and liberal strongholds in the country, people do not care one bit whether or not you're "transgender", they will treat you as whatever you appear and claim to be. this has always been possible, because it's a basic necessity of human beings to identify and treat others per their basic perceptions.

yes, i agree. her recent workout data mid-T suppression seems to back this up too, i think it would be hard to make the argument she can even break 17:00 per these workouts let alone 16:00

Thursday, 6/28/2018 Afternoon Normal Run [ Top ]

Workout Data:

Total distance 6.5 Miles in 49:35 [7:37 per mile]

Comments Felt kinda tired - might be sleep related. Started second transition medication. :)

Friday, 6/8/2018 Afternoon Easy Run [ Top ]

Workout Data:

Total distance 4.5 Miles in 32:01 [7:06 per mile]

Comments Exhausted - I think it has something to do with the medication.

Monday, 9/17/2018 Afternoon Easy Run [ Top ]

Workout Data:

Total distance 6.83 Miles in 1:02:03 [9:05 per mile]

Comments Felt tired pretty much the whole run - eyes couldn’t even completely focus. Potentially from a lot of different reasons - food, water, sleep, maybe hormone changes. On the bright side, no foot pain.

Tuesday, 12/18/2018 Afternoon Interval Workout [ Top ]

Workout Data:

Total distance 7 Miles

Comments 2mi WU

3x(800 | 400 |400)

(2:45 | 77 | 75)

(2:40 | 75 | 76)

(2:44 | 77 | 78)

2mi CD

Notes: Got to run on the outdoor track ??Took a few reps to get fully warmed up, but felt good through the middle set, and even got warm enough to just go in a sports bra! Felt a bit tired on the tail end, but didn’t fall off too bad. Sore on the cool down home, but feeling pretty good overall about this workout!

the suggestions in this post don't hold water against the modern journalistic mission, to report facts as they are rather than as they should be (or in this case, how RunRagged thinks they should be). journalists are descriptivists that describe what happens without any moral judgement, and the fact is that June has transitioned from male to female by living her life as a female. you and i both know that if you saw her on the street without having been indoctrinated by the trans exclusionists in this thread, you would assume that she's a woman. these assumptions are natural in humans and our perception defines reality.

the fact of the matter is there is a lot of armchair science going in this thread where trans exclusionists with a biased agenda have set out to falsely prove that certain biological traits all of a sudden make someone a better runner without any studies or even any anecdotal evidence among current elites to back them up. the current mainstream opinion, despite what these partisans may have you think, is that testosterone is the primary performance enhancer in distance running, and that testosterone and estrogen need to be regulated to create a fair playing field for transgender women to compete in women's XC. now, it may be that a sex change operation makes it easier to maintain female levels of T+E as why register pointed out, and if true that's definitely something we need to look in to, but that doesn't change the fact that T+E are still the primary chemicals that we're monitoring here. i don't think we even know so far whether or not June has received a sex-change operation, only that she is taking T+E to female levels per her running logs and the DB article.

why register wrote:

just to add, if she was completely transitioned post-op her 5K would not even break 16:30 at very best

however for now she might remain capable of closer to a 16:00, no way to know until it happens

both are good enough to be in DI, even a 17:00 would, but she certainly won't be in top 100 all-time

don't understand why people are freaking out, especially before there are any actual results

People are freaking out because they don't like transgender people. They talk about them as if they are sub-human. That's what this is about at this point. June Eastwood hasn't done anything so far to suggest that she will blow away the competition.

i think she'd be quicker than that.2.02/4.05 and 15.20-15.30 wouldnt be beyond her,perhaps even slightly faster.she was best at 1500's before transitioning,and probably didnt even train seriously for the 5000.

I do in fact attack their character, appropriately! These athletes have been "forced" at this juncture to know quite a bit about the inherent advantages of the male sex steroids. They learn it from their lawyers (Semenya) or their doctors if transgender. They cant help but be well versed in the biology. Thus, this "good faith" argument you propose is preposterous. Thats what they want you to think, that they are just "innocent human beings that didnt take exogenous steroids so dont pick on us". They know full well, that the intent of separating men and women in elite athletics is due to biology, and they are cheating that system all the same! The science of testosterone is straightforward enough to make rules. It conveys aggression, strength, endurance recovery and on and on. It's a ludicrous argument to suggest we just ignore this form of cheating until science is 100% sure of everything. We make decisions based on the preponderance of evidence. With T, its overwhelmingly well known what it's effects are. Im all for transgenders, but they need to know they are in a gray area that is problematic for elite sports. The NCAA and IAAF are in a tight spot, they have to make a decision.

Thus we have to make a cut off. The overlap of androgen levels for biological males and females is not a continuam, its night and day 60nL vs 300-1000nL) Just make a cut off and stick to it. The true victims are not them, its people who are actually born with disorders of androgen biology. They cant help it. BUT, they can suppress their T as a way of meeting rules. Or they can compete with males, they have a choice thanks to science.

No it is not possible. You can not change the male chromosome to a female chromosome by introducing testosterone and estrogen. I suppose you are going to tell me that these two chemicals will also create a vagina and give Mr. Eastwood child bearing hips.

And as for people who are transgender, I could give a rat's behind. I don't care. Just do not think you are equal as a woman. You are not and never will. If you want to compete in college then organize your own group. Hell, I will gladly support and donate.

Have a nice day.

Is it just me or does anyone find her(June Eastwood) really cute?