HEy JS. What do you think about running economy and improving that with your training system? It seems running economy, Vo2 and LT are the frequently used as predictors of performance or measurements of potential.
Improvements in running economy are one of the reasons people train at paces such as middle distance and sprinting even for the marathon right. Plus plyos and weights. Any thoughts?
Please share some of these "Mission Impossible" athletes and their results. Phil may have 2:15 potential but not on 60 MPW. Not many people have run 2:19 on 60/ week. He has a much better chance if he runs closer to his original plan of 70-80.
Well…..I have coached many " Mission Impossible" before on less than 60 mpw.
Low mileage wrote:
HEy JS. What do you think about running economy and improving that with your training system? It seems running economy, Vo2 and LT are the frequently used as predictors of performance or measurements of potential.
Improvements in running economy are one of the reasons people train at paces such as middle distance and sprinting even for the marathon right. Plus plyos and weights. Any thoughts?
Running economy you get at all the speeds you train. Running 10-20 x 400m at 5 k pace almost every week is not mainly to raise your maxO2 but mainly to improve your running economy at 5 k race pace.
Far Out West wrote:
Please share some of these "Mission Impossible" athletes and their results. Phil may have 2:15 potential but not on 60 MPW. Not many people have run 2:19 on 60/ week. He has a much better chance if he runs closer to his original plan of 70-80.
Well…..I have coached many " Mission Impossible" before on less than 60 mpw.
As I showed in the example of the most mileage it can be for Phil it was 78.5 miles per week. Of course it will vary between 50-78 mpw dependant on race weeks and other things as job and daily life and so on.And my system is only at 6 days training in the week to get perfect recovery. I coached one guy on just 55 mpw and he ran as a pacemaker 30 k at 1:32 hours and felt still strong and had probably done 2:09-2:10 in that marathon if allowed to continue. Another guy, an Irish master runner age 42, I coached from 16:30 at 5 k down to 15:47 on 5 sessions per week in just 2 months coaching. But this thread is not about my all successful coaching cases . It`s more about a new chance to live my running career a second time by Phil, and see how fast I could have run back in the 1990`s if I had known then what I know today ( I ran 14:20/ 29:51 at 5000/10000 and half 1:06 and marathon 2:22.09 ). Phil and I are almost identical when it comes to PB:s and basic talent as top sprint speed and so on.
- A second chance in a lifetime - :)
Today the plan was to run 10 -12 x 400m a little bit faster than normal at 67-68 sec.
It became a great 12 x 400m at 67.8 , 67.8 , 66.6, 66,8 , 66.2, 66.4 , 65.9 , 65.8 , 66.1 , 66.7 and rest average down to 120 bpm in 66 sec ....and Phil didn`t even force the workout. Looks great!
- Magic Formula -
Sorry.....it was of course 12 400s and the reps again... 67.8 , 67.8, 66,6,66.8 , 66.2, 65.8,66.2, 66.4 , 65.9,65.8, 66.1, 66.7 .
Very interesting training approach. Can you share more information on a 12 month period of training or do you advocate the same week all year? I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Ingebrigtsen LT training where they do 2 LT sessions on 2 days during the week with 1 VO2 max training day. Also, can you explain your thoughts on the inclusion of VO2 max/ sub VO2 max training or why you do not include this type of intensity?
Periodization wrote:
Very interesting training approach. Can you share more information on a 12 month period of training or do you advocate the same week all year? I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Ingebrigtsen LT training where they do 2 LT sessions on 2 days during the week with 1 VO2 max training day. Also, can you explain your thoughts on the inclusion of VO2 max/ sub VO2 max training or why you do not include this type of intensity?
Hi! Well......my so called DANCAN-system that I invented myself( I found the name by mixing DANiels and CANovas names ) is the same for all runners, sprinters to ultra runners, in the basic structure year around. Then I put in different specialties when it comes to the demand of every race distance. Always only enough when it comes to volume to reach the target. I coach in the same style as Canova with only one week at a time....but of course his system is a phase system and mine a linear approach. Also his system is on high mileage and mine on low mileage.
Of course the Ingebrigtsens don`t run 2 LT sessions on 2 days every week, but when they do it seems to function very well for them. I myself have found that it`s enough with one LT session in the week for most runners, and my half/ marathoners also add LT work in the specific long run . Kipchoge and Kamworor`s coach Sang use LT intervals or sustained tempos in the same style as me. It`s obviously enough to do LT:s 1-2 sessions per week.
There is also sub VO2max intensity in my system, but mainly for the 800-1500/ mile - runners when preparing for races .
Sometimes I even put in sub VO2 max intensity for my 5k- marathoners when I see they are ready for a new level. Here in this the experience and Art of coaching is very important to decide when the runner is ready to climb a new step to individual optimal success.
- Swedish Pro Running Coach , COACH J.S -
Thanks for the direct reply. What are your thoughts on the traditional base building of easy runs, steady runs, progressive runs before more structured LT sessions etc (and if you do not include it, why not?)?
Periodization wrote:
Thanks for the direct reply. What are your thoughts on the traditional base building of easy runs, steady runs, progressive runs before more structured LT sessions etc (and if you do not include it, why not?)?
Well.....as I have said so many times , the Lydiard style with base building and LSD (Long Stedy Distance) before a sharpening phase functions very well . Thousends of running stars have done this way of high mileage and then sharpening phase.....
But I have found it can be done with much less mileage year round and still equal or better results.Why run all this miles when you don`t have to ?
The original way to run intervals is not to run them progressive. It gives much better result to let the amount of reps at same pace increase the effort and pressure the more reps you run at same pace. This way you have perfect control and teach the body to stay with the pace the entire race distance.
What does talking about your income and objectifying your wife as a 9.5 but you wouldn't leave her for a 10 have to do with training? You sound like a tool. You talk about your wife like she is a sneaker size. Learn to have some respect and to appreciate people. You probably aren't even capable of that. Do I need to make 225k and have a 2016 Porsche 911 Turbo with at least an 8.5 wife or chick on the side to run with you?
I’m more of a pickup truck man.
Very interesting style. I would like to know more about it. Say a 5 month period for a 47 year old male looking to run a fast 5000 meters. I have a base of 50-60 mpw built up since April.
Coach JS. This method of yours is fascinating. I was wondering if you work with your athlete’s running form when training them and whether you have thoughts on developing good form other than the impact that high volumes of 5k pace has on the athletes form.
kevin3681 wrote:
Very interesting style. I would like to know more about it. Say a 5 month period for a 47 year old male looking to run a fast 5000 meters. I have a base of 50-60 mpw built up since April.
Then you have to buy a pickup truck if you don`t already have ..... )) Just kidding,, :) Well.....if you are interested to be coached by me you just take contact in private. You can email me at :
magic@coachjs.seWelcome! :)
Hobby sprinter wrote:
Coach JS. This method of yours is fascinating. I was wondering if you work with your athlete’s running form when training them and whether you have thoughts on developing good form other than the impact that high volumes of 5k pace has on the athletes form.
Hi! In most cases running form is not so important, but if you aren´t sure your running form is the best for you I can take a look at it if sending a short video if you are coached by me.
Today Phil did his fastest LT workout with me as coach: 2 x 1600m + 2 x 800m + 2 x 1200m + 2 x 800m + 2 x 1000m + 2 x 800m = total of 12.4 km ( 7.8 miles ) . Pace was 74-75 sec/ 400m ( or 3:05-3:08 min / km ). Very good LT !
And now he is ready to run 65-66 min Half-marathon and 29:30 10 k ?
Prefontaine1991 wrote:
And now he is ready to run 65-66 min Half-marathon and 29:30 10 k ?
No, not yet, but he will be in December when time for the big Goal, CIM marathon.
So, his LT is not 3:05-3:08 per km.