top Canadian coach calls out drug cheats beating his athletes

I don't think we'll see any consequences from this cheating. The provincial (can't you guys have States like the rest of us?!) association seems dead set on hiding things and the SR guys don't have the balls to post any more. They'll pretend nothing happened but make a few minor changes to save face.

Those crazy canucks have some pretty heavy corruption going on underneath all that politeness. Or maybe that cheat river crew just takes advantage of how polite most of the other Canadians are.

So anybody appealing on the basis that a PSO has gone too far on the sliding scale of acceptability in making attendance at their championships mandatory wins? This means those appealing have done nothing wrong. (fact) They have tested the waters for all clubs/athletes and prevailed. Thank you to those who appealed.

Likewise the PSO has done nothing wrong in trying to stand firm on a value they believe in - members must attend their championships. (debatable depending on point of view)

Look for the 2016/2017 carding criteria to have some lessening in the importance of championships participation in the carding points scheme. Also expect an increase in administrative requirements to even make an appeal, and a lessening in the time that appeals will be allowed.

Leave it to the parties involved to apologize if they feel their actions are in the wrong, and accusations were leveled unfairly.

Based on what we saw with the OUA Mens 3k I really doubt we're going to see any apologies from the guelph crew.

what is this wrote:

fred wrote:

Wodak - 2004 -age 23 - 7 Simon Fraser - 3000 - 10:05.41

Who is this Fred fellow and why is he posting some random result from 12 years ago for Wodak but not for Proudfoot? These threads really bring out the pathetic wackos.

Right jogger boy. I guess that she was faster than your old lady.

not a chance wrote:

Based on what we saw with the OUA Mens 3k I really doubt we're going to see any apologies from the guelph crew.

What happened at the OUA Mens 3k? I thought it was kind of boring this year.

The Speed River guys were never going to race that 10000m and have got away with it, so just get over it. This is how they operate.

Tossing eggs at coolsaet and gillis next road race

those cheating d-bags

uweirdbro wrote:

Tossing eggs at coolsaet and gillis next road race

those cheating d-bags

No hate for Gillis at all from these quarters. Guys like him and Milne seem like good dudes. The rest of the SR crew has either question marks beside their names or an egg with their name on it.

A fair number of people on here and the trackie thread are alleging Speed River fraud. In order for a fraud to have been perpetrated, it would be necessary for all of the following to have happened:

- at least three of Canada's (SR's) top distance runners lied in carding applications

- their (SR) coaches lied

- the Quest for Gold (Ontario carding) committee colluded to go along with the SR athlete and coaches' lies. This means Moulton, a SR coach, exercised undue influence in committee deliberations, AND all the other committee members, coaches for other Ontario track clubs (with no obvious interest in putting SR athletes ahead of their own), agreed to go along. Maybe in excahange for future considerations...?

- the appeals committee, comprised of sports officials from outside T&F, were co-opted to go along with the fraud cooked up by SR athletes and coaches and the Q4G committee

- the Ontario ministry of Sport was convinced to go along with the fraud, and concocted a story to cover it all up.

In Steve Boyd's words, that's all "beyond the pale" and almost certainly does not reflect the truth of what happened. Personally I can't see how a fraud could have propagated all the way through this process, unless we admit that everyone in the chain is on the take or susceptible to influence by DST and his minions.

Canada is one of those countries where you can by banned substances over the counter.

Perhaps, like Donald Trump, he's unwilling to express regret for his actions or consider the need for forgiveness. The sort of guy who when asked about his areas for improvement in his professional life will reply that he's a perfectionist and he should stop demanding so much of himself all of the time.

SB wrote:

I found it very odd that, when asked about his greatest regret, DST would have referred not to something that HE himself said or did, but to something that was done to HIM (i.e. via his athletes). "Regret", after all, generally refers to things you wish you had or hadn't done. You generally don't "regret" things OTHER people do, whether to you or not. You might wish they hadn't done them, or you might even deplore them, but it wouldn't make sense to say you "regretted" them. You can't really regret something you had no control over, such as other people's behaviour. It just seemed like a very odd way to answer that question, like maybe he didn't quite get the concept of "regret" (and he is anything but a stupid man).

interested bystander wrote:

In Steve Boyd's words, that's all "beyond the pale" and almost certainly does not reflect the truth of what happened. Personally I can't see how a fraud could have propagated all the way through this process, unless we admit that everyone in the chain is on the take or susceptible to influence by DST and his minions.

"Beyond the Pale"

2.(idiomatic, of a behaviour or person) Outside the bounds of morality, acceptable behaviour or good judgement, etc.

You either skipped, misread, or misunderstood some of the posts. There are two distinct stages:

1) the Quest or Gold nominations, before appeals. 3 Speed River athletes were given Championship points they did not earn. The committee voted on either some or all of these SR athletes, agreeing to ignore the criteria for them. The vote was not unanimous, one committee member apparently disagreed so strongly with the actions of the committee that he quit.

2) the SR athletes were un-nominated at some point after the original nominations. 2 of them appealed, which went to the Ministry. This appeal used the false pretense of a late announcement of a change of date for the Canadian 10 Champs. A committee member confirmed the false details of this for the ministry, so there was no co-opting only presenting an appeal with incorrect data which the ministry wouldn't have known.

Is the Speed River coach funded at all by AC or OA as a high performance center?

Great response Plaskett. Boyd added even more of a response on the Trackie thread.

http://www.trackie.com/track-and-field/Forum/q4g/12860/8/

plaskett wrote:This appeal used the false pretense of a late announcement of a change of date for the Canadian 10 Champs. A committee member confirmed the false details of this for the ministry, so there was no co-opting only presenting an appeal with incorrect data which the ministry wouldn't have known.

I call BS. Who (what committee member) "confirmed" the so-called false details? Let's see that on the record. I think you're making shit up.

interested bystander wrote:

plaskett wrote:This appeal used the false pretense of a late announcement of a change of date for the Canadian 10 Champs. A committee member confirmed the false details of this for the ministry, so there was no co-opting only presenting an appeal with incorrect data which the ministry wouldn't have known.

I call BS. Who (what committee member) "confirmed" the so-called false details? Let's see that on the record. I think you're making shit up.

Committee member and AO High Performance manager Sue Wise told London Runner coach Steve Weiler more than once in a phone conversation in late March that the SR appeals were granted based on a claim that they (the SR athletes) could not run the Nats 10,000m (a race that was combined with the AO championship, and that would have easily garnered them sufficient points to be nominated), because the date of competition had be changed by AC and not officially announced till April 19 (the race was held on May 10, a one hour drive from SR home base in Guelph). Wise supported, or at least did not challenge, this blatantly erroneous claim. Furthermore, I have it in writing in an email from AO executive director Katie Ozolins shortly after that phone conversations that Sue Wise did indeed supply or confirm information used in the appeal process, although she declined to say whether or not it was in relation to the SR appeals in particular.

Steve Weiler was the first person to ask the Q for G committee direct questions about how the Q fo G affair, and he was given raw data on the Q for G scoring from committee member Wise, with whom he has spoken personally on two occasions.

I can assure you that no one who has been asking questions about this is "making shit up".

Are you suggesting that Sue Wise committed fraud, or knowingly supported a fraud?

interested bystander wrote:

Are you suggesting that Sue Wise committed fraud, or knowingly supported a fraud?

There are two possibilities here:

1. She really didn't know that the claim had to have been false, and did not bother to spend the 5mins on the internet that it would have taken learn that it had to be false. (In this instance, we would be talking extreme incompetence or laziness).

or;

2. She knew the claim was false and did not bother to point this out to the appeals committee. Hence, yes, fraud.

The balance or probabilities is on 2. The date of the AO 10,000m was set in November 2014, and the date of the AC 10,000m (to be held as part of the same AO race) was finally determined, following a high profile appeal process, in late Feb. It is completely impossible that SR would not have know about the date of the AC 10,000m till April 19, because it was actually party to this appeal process! And it strains credulity to think that an AO official-- and one who was actually on the Q for G board-- would not have known about the existence of this appeal process and its outcome.