Scott Jurek Appalachian Trail Record Attempt

YES. it's a massive physical accomplishment. but not an accomplishment i want to be filed under the category of running. hiking, sure.you're right, the elevation gain is mind-blowing. i try to run about 4-6,000 feet of elevation per week in my 50-60 miles just training for half marathons and that seems higher than most road runners. i'm not saying it's not impressive, but I think Scott Jurek needs to begin with a lot of disclaimers when he speaks about what he's done. (which he probably will)what makes me say things like "for this record he's not a runner" is that he probably didn't respect the record going into it. and he didn't prepeare for it. he just thought, "oh, a popular hilly trail that's 2000+ miles, i'll divide that number by the record and that's my daily mileage and i'll go do it with a massive support team."kinda brazen and in some ways even disrespectful to the record holder if you ask me. it's like all of the nfl guys saying that they could be in the olympics for sprinting or the jumps. no they couldn't. at least not without several years of very hard work.And i know what walking/hiking is compared to running. i hiked the entire country of New zealand south to north with all of my food and gear on my back. I've also run marathons and was a 400m/800m guy in h.s./college, so i'm not criticizing something i know nothing about.

Old Man Runner wrote:

Run or walk, 300 miles per week for almost 7 straight weeks is damn impressive. Add in major elevation and technical trail and even more so.

A lot of the non-trail runners on this board seem to think 500 feet of elevation change over a marathon is a hilly course...and this is on pavement. Jurek averaged 11,000 feet of change a day...on technical trails.

See the thing here is that it was to complete the trail in the fastest time. I don't think it was billed as "running" the AT. Of course that seems to be the strategy entailed when it was applicable.

It's also sort of lame to try and discount him because he didn't "prepare" for it. Obviously there was some preparation because you don't just do the AT in 46 days on a whim.

Just to throw an interesting perspective into the mix, a friend just made me aware of the long lost sport of Pedestrianism, and the father of the sport, Edward Payson Weston. In 1867, he walked from Portland, ME to Chicago, covering over 1200 miles in 26 days. That's about 46 miles per day. Sound familiar? :)

Don't get mired in the details, obviously different terrain and different circumstances all around. Instead think about the fact that some guy walked 1200 miles at essentially the same pace as JPD and SJ, but almost a century and a half earlier! I am in awe of both JPD and SJ, but I must admit I found this more than mildly amusing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Payson_Weston

Other accomplishments from the article:

"In 1907, at the age of 68, Weston repeated his Maine-to-Chicago walk of 1867, beating his own time by over 24 hours. In 1909, he walked 4,000 miles, from New York to San Francisco, in 100 days.

His last great journey was in 1913, when he walked 1546 miles (2488 km) from New York to Minneapolis in 51 days."

You're perspective is refreshing and spot on.

I'm not sure if he didn't "respect the record", but I do think he didn't prepare for how tough it would be. If anything, he underestimated how difficult the challenge would be. It would be interesting to hear from Scott what his daily and weekly mileage was at it's peak heading into the AT attempt. I'd be willing to bet it wasn't 320 miles a week on technical terrain.

Unlike some NFL stars who claim they could be in the Olympics and never try, Scott went out there, tried and succeeded. As with any of these attempts, I'm not sure if Scott cared for the publicity or not. I have to think someone heard about him trying and then passed it on who passed it on, etc, Eventually the bigger "media" outlets heard about it and went after the story.

Old Man Runner wrote:

Run or walk, 300 miles per week for almost 7 straight weeks is damn impressive. Add in major elevation and technical trail and even more so.

A lot of the non-trail runners on this board seem to think 500 feet of elevation change over a marathon is a hilly course...and this is on pavement. Jurek averaged 11,000 feet of change a day...on technical trails.

...doesn't know crap.

The speed record is pretty impressive. Both from a physical and mental aspect. I dare say many of you couldn't handle it even if you took the more common 5-6 months to complete it. To do it quickly is quite the physical feat!

However, this "technical terrain" and "11,000'" of elevation change a day is crap. I've actually hiked the entire trail (at least as it existed in 2007). There are decidedly few "technical" sections. I averaged in the low 20 mpd range, with a full pack and going into town to resupply and an of day here or there. There may have been a couple of 11,000' days of climbing because he was going so far a day, but that would be the exception, not the norm.

I love how the "experts" from the LRC come on on stuff they have no clue about.

Oh, the trail is generally set up for a north to south hike - mostly because of more agreeable weather. Start in the south in the spring, finish in the north in the fall. You're usually far enough north by the time the heat sets in that it isn't so bad. The businesses that make money off hikers are also set up for northbounders better too, since a much larger % goes that way. Technically, southbounders have it easier. They have a net descent of ~1500'. Over ~2200 miles that adds up to nothing. But a supported hike wouldn't really be impacted by the lack of open trail vendors so much, would they? Weather and timing is what I'd be focused on if I was doing a supported hike/run. Getting Vermont in mud season is no fun, but if you got clean/dry shoes every day, it's not so bad. I made it through mud season with wet shoes, but I was there for 6+ days, not 3+.

Dude went out and got the record. Kudos to him. Lots of people talk. He is a doer.

It sounds like next year he is going to help a guy who will likely beat his record so he has no illusion that his record will be the best throughout time.

It is my personal problem with these sorts of records is that it becomes about who can tolerate the least amount of sleep and move forward, not about who can move forward the fastest.

It isn't going to happen but I'd like to see a second set of records on courses like this for people who only hiked/ran during sunlight hours and stopped each day at sunset. It would be an honor thing (as the whole adventure is pretty much anyway). That way it would be more about who moved the fastest along the course rather than who could hike thru the night on minimal sleep. Logistics might mean that people had to stop way before sunset sometimes because there might not be spots to camp near sunset but that is part of the second set of records rules.

Here's an interview with Jurek on top of Katahdin posted on youtube. The sound quality isn't great because of the wind, but he gives some insights into what he went through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vog3AjgzQLY

As trite as this may sound, I think you do something like this for "the experience," not because you expect some sort of medal for the completion. I've only hiked the AT once (northbound), though I've been over certain sections numerous times (having grown up about three miles from the trail). My sense is this: Whether you're backpacking or speed hiking or "hiking/running," you find out about yourself in fundamental ways, because you strip away a lot of crap. Jurek's pretty up front in the interview about how narrowly he set the record, and about others coming and breaking the record -- he's very respectful of Pharr Davis. And I think he's pretty humble in terms of what it all means.

I'm curious to know how much sleep did he get (on an average) per day? Very impressive,

To me it seems like the kind of thing that shouldn't have "official" records. Once you've gone through the trouble of setting the criteria, verifying this and that and getting the media involved, the essence of the thing you started with is gone.

Yellow dog wrote:

It is my personal problem with these sorts of records is that it becomes about who can tolerate the least amount of sleep and move forward, not about who can move forward the fastest.

you hit the nail on the head this is exactly what this attempt has shown. If you go 24 minute miles *while moving* on 4 hours sleep you would accomplish the current record, so its really about handling sleep. I'm sure jurek was not a sleep deprivation expert and he did that for a long while at the end there. Not to mention the slower you go, the less wear and tear on your legs many more people without sporting backgrounds can handle it. You will get more bang for you buck training sleep deprivation than training hiking or running.

Did Jurek carry his own pack with tent and all the other stuff he would need? Isn't that what most hikers do on the AT? With an occasional trip into town or family/friend meet up.

If Jurek didn't have to haul all his stuff then he wasn't really completing against anyone who had ever hiked the trail, just a relatively small number who have had daily support teams to handle their gear and actually even cared about their total time taken.

Old Chubb wrote:

Putting this in perspective - it's the equivalent of beating the marathon record by 0.4 second.

Might seem like that, but ratio wise, it is equivalent to beating the marathon record by 21 sec.

As for not beating it by more, the following quote in an Outside article states: "Jurek suffered setbacks on the trail, including a tweaked knee, a quadricep strain, and a stomach bug that set him back on his timeline. (He had initially hoped to beat the record by four or five days.)"

Give Scott kudos for pushing on even if he didn't meet his original goal. Without being in his shoes, none of know how much he was hurting while pushing forward.

Congratulations to Scott setting a new overall AT record and a new Northbound AT record on Sunday afternoon: 2189.2 miles

46 days, 8 hours, 8 minutes

An average of about 47.2 miles per day.

He beat the overall record (by JPD) by about 3 hours and beat the Northbound record by 1-2 days (I can't find the previous NOBO record right now).

Onwards: Thank you for posting a link to the interview on top of Mt. Katahdin - very insightful - and for your comments throughout this discussion.

I'm looking forward to some more interviews with Scott and articles to find out more details in the future.

A few thoughts:

1. It appears Jurek kind of "winged it" in preparation/planning, training, and execution, etc. and he still broke the record.

He had never hiked the AT before (other than one 30 mile section) and had never hiked a 300+ mile week in his life before this.

Further, he set the record going Northbound which is much harder than Southbound (because of the mountains in New Hampshire and Maine).

To me this is a credit to his athleticism (at age 41) and his strong will to fight through it.

2. That Jurek was able to break the record (albeit by only 3 hours) going Northbound, on his first try (and first time on the AT), at age 41, and winging it, tells me that the record is still "soft."

While I think his Northbound record will stand for several years, I think the overall record can be reduced by several days - going Southbound - and will be in the coming years.

3. Going Southbound is the logical way to break the record:

If you get to Vermont and are not ahead of record pace - you can just quit at that point - no sense continuing.

But if you get to Vermont ahead of the record pace, then it's game on.

Maybe Karl Meltzer will do it next year (with Scott pacing some of the way).

3. As the record continues to drop, sleep management will become an increasingly significant factor.

Again, congratulations to Scott Jurek!

It is an impressive athletic achievement - a great example to inspire us to take on the whatever challenges we face!

Did Jurek carry his own pack with tent and all the other stuff he would need? Isn't that what most hikers do on the AT? With an occasional trip into town or family/friend meet up.

No, this was a "supported" FKT (fastest known time). There is a separate "category" for unsupported. (I use quotes because nothing is actually official.)

If Jurek didn't have to haul all his stuff then he wasn't really completing against anyone who had ever hiked the trail, just a relatively small number who have had daily support teams to handle their gear and actually even cared about their total time taken.

You're right, he wasn't competing against unsupported thru hikers -- I don't think anyone is claiming he was -- he was competing against supported hikers. But the vast majority of thru hikers aren't competing, period. Just like the couch-to-5k'ers I meet at the local high school track aren't competing against US Olympian Andrew Wheating, who I met at that same track.

I hear what you're saying, he's not doing what most people on the AT are doing. But people who compete in NASCAR don't change their own tires and pump their own gas. That's why there is a differentiation between supported and unsupported hikes.

FYI: "Matt Kirk did the AT in classic thru hiker style in 58d9h40m during June-August 2013."

Thanks, George31321, for getting and keeping this thread going.

One point that I found interesting in Jurek's interview was his comment that about 30% of the trail is actually runnable. Possibly a little hyperbole there, but maybe not that much... I think he found that aspect a little surprising. In any case, it's clear that other "ultrarunners" who want to attempt the record will need to consider closely how they pace themselves over the distance depending on various terrain.

That being said, I think the section of the trail where an ultrarunner has the greatest advantage over a "speed hiker" is the middle third, especially from the Berkshires south down into the Shanendoahs. You saw Jurek really comparatively gain time on Pharr Davis through that section and into the Green Mountains. Hence, if I were an SOBO ultrarunner, I would try to pace myself through the Whites, even if it meant losing a little time on a speed hiker like Pharr Davis, hoping to be in a position physically to crush that middle portion. All is not lost if you're a bit behind when you hit Vermont!

And I agree that managing recovery -- including sleep -- is obviously critical. For Jurek, the situation seems to have snowballed to some extent at the end: the longer you hike/run each day, the less sleep and recovery you get. Eventually, it catches up with you, and you slow down -- which means even longer days, and even less time to sleep and recover, etc. Future athletes attempting an AT "FKT" will need to measure out doses of sleep very carefully. Less isn't always going to be more. I still wonder about Jurek's "epic" 48.5 mile day to Galehead Hut, hiking until 5:30 am, just as he entered the Whites, as a point where maybe he threw the sleep-recovery cycle out of whack.

A huge accomplishment, certainly, and one that Scott Jurek will remember for a lifetime with justifiable pride. Hopefully he recovers fully, quickly and well -- though I don't expect he'll be doing this sort of thing again any time soon!

So in your scenario about NFL players what would happen if they brazenly said they'd make the Olympics and we all assume they couldn't then they did. Would you be impressed? Because that is basically what happened. He probably did underestimate the trail, but then still went out and did it.

siap somewhere deep in this long thread, but here's Jennifer Pharr Davis on Scott Jurek's record. If you've read her book Becoming Odyssa, you know she has a good balanced approach to the trail and to life, regardless of her fkt record.

http://www.outsideonline.com/1999151/greatest-reward-not-record?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost

Seems there are plenty on here who blow a ton of smoke about how pathetic this is... really? ave. 47 miles EACH DAY, ave. 11,000 ft. elev. change EACH DAY, rocky, root laden terrain EACH DAY for 46 days. Yeah, that's pretty much a piece of cake. Better see some of these couch potato studs who think this is a joke put their money where their big mouth is. Start planning, do it in 42 days, let's see how studly you are Old Chubb and others.

speedgolf wrote:

Seems there are plenty on here who blow a ton of smoke about how pathetic this is... really? ave. 47 miles EACH DAY, ave. 11,000 ft. elev. change EACH DAY, rocky, root laden terrain EACH DAY for 46 days. Yeah, that's pretty much a piece of cake. Better see some of these couch potato studs who think this is a joke put their money where their big mouth is. Start planning, do it in 42 days, let's see how studly you are Old Chubb and others.

The fact is that he only broke the record by 3 hours, and the only reason for that is because he started sacrificing sleep in the last week or two and put in tremendously long days in order to just barely break the record. If her record were a day later, he'd have given himself a lot more sleep and broke it by 6hours instead of 3.

Now, if he'd been able to realize his orginal plan of covering 50 miles per day, every day, and breaking the record by 5 days, then I'd be impressed. In that case, if her record were a day slower, he'd have broken it by 6.