Ridiculous, as 13 minute pace for each 5km portion would be close to 4 minutes per mile. Physiologically impossible.
In 20 years from now, people will be excited to beat records by minimal amounts (100ths of seconds) as we will be approaching human limits by that time.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today.
ghost,
when is your buddy Eddy going to return the money he stole by doping? We all know he doesn't need it, since he is good at business.
JO--
Are you sure about power output vs plasma volume? I seem to remember something about power output dropping progressively...I may be totally wrong...
I would like to make one more point in this discussion:
The issue has centered around whether or not elite endurance runners benefit from EPO use.
Through their running history, a runner will go through a period of increasing performance, hit their maximum and stay there for whatever amount of time, and will then go through a period of decreasing performance.
I think that the discussion has assumed that all elite runners under consideration are in the first or second of these phases.
What about an elite who is on the downslope? Could EPO and other PED be used to help maintain elite status for a longer period?
EVEN IF it is accepted that EPO use does not benefit a currently elite endurance runner, is it not possible for it to benefit a currently post-elite endurance runner, thus maintaining them in the elite category?
Is little Eddy a Jew boy from Belgium? Sure he acts like one when you talk about money.
ghost wrote:
Ridiculous, as 13 minute pace for each 5km portion would be close to 4 minutes per mile. Physiologically impossible.
In 20 years from now, people will be excited to beat records by minimal amounts (100ths of seconds) as we will be approaching human limits by that time.
Ghost in Saudi,
http://www.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today.
Your post is ridiculous. Records are going to keep coming down and down and down for another 100 years at least.
Sprint Geezer wrote:
JO--
Are you sure about power output vs plasma volume? I seem to remember something about power output dropping progressively...I may be totally wrong...
?????
I never said otherwise.
J.O. wrote:
I put the Marathon limit at sub 1.50, that's 13 minutes for every 5k.
As you can see, it's a long way off, about 100 years.
You're barking mad.
So you think it's impossible for a marathon runner to have a stride length of over 2 meters?
That's what it would take, not impossible, not mad, or whatever you think.
An improvement in stride length of less than 5 centimeters would be all that is required to take Gebreselassie's Marathon record below 2 hours.
Obviously that figure will be bettered by some considerable margin. Common sense trollism, something that you don't have.
Common sense?
You're the guy predicting that someone is going to run 4+ back to back 26 minutes 10ks before anyone has got too close for 1.
And that's with or without drugs too trollboy. 4.11 per mile for 26.2 miles.
I actually think it will take less than 100 years for that to happen, because I don't think it will take that long for marathon runners to increase their stride length by just under 10%
J.O. is a troll. 7/10 (since many reply to him/her)
J.O. wrote:
And that's with or without drugs too trollboy. 4.11 per mile for 26.2 miles.
I actually think it will take less than 100 years for that to happen, because I don't think it will take that long for marathon runners to increase their stride length by just under 10%
Do you have a web page or blog?
Nah. He's actually not.
Shamelessly stolen from strategy on DP. This explains a lot about why the Spanish authorities are not too eager to go after Fuentes:
ZigZagged was wondering why the Spanish Sports federation would have any interest in protecting Fuentes. It's a good question, and studying Fuentes career gives a good couple of reasons. This is basically an english translation of an article from Wieleruitslagen.be, with a few additional details added. I haven't seen this in English before (seen various versions in Spanish and Swedish), so here it is for your enjoyment:
1970s
Eufemiano Fuentes has a respectable career as a 400m runner (a couple of medals). Cute fact: He was trained by Manual Pascua Piqueras - Manual's brother Luis is the trainer of Oscar Pereiro. He starts studying medicine and works with the Argentine preparatore Guillermo Laig - a known doping doctor known to have provided his athletes with among other things anabolic steroids.
1980-1984
Fuentes gets his doctoral exam (specialized in gynaecology). Manuel Pascua gets Fuentes a job in the Spanish Athletics association, where he quickly gains a reputation. In 1984, he is accused of providing athletes with doping.
1985
Fuentes start working in cycling, where he joins the team Seat-Orbea (again, Manuel Pascua helps). Here Fuentes meets Manolo Saiz.
1988
Fuentes is forced to retire from his position in the Spanish Athletics association. Reason - his girlfriend (now wife) - the athlete Cristina Perez tests positive for doping. His client - Pedro Delgado - also tests positive for probenicid during the Tour de France (which he won - by the way). Delgado is lucky - although probenicid is on IOC's list, it is not on the UCI's doping list at the time. Delgado has subsequently admitted to doping to Jorn Mader.
After two positive doping tests, Fuentes retires from sports for a couple of years and works as a private physician. He specializes in auto-transfusions and blood recovery.
1990
Fuentes returns - and joins Manolo Saiz's ONCE.
1991
Melchior Mauri (ONCE) shockingly wins the Vuelta a Espana. On the eve of one of the critical stages of the Vuelta, Fuentes is on a plane to the start city of the next day's stage and talks to a journalist. Tapping the refrigerator bag on the seat next to him, he answers the question about its contents. "Here is the key to the Vuelta".
1992
Spanish 1500m runner Fermin Cacho wins gold at the Olympics in Barcelona. His doctor... Fuentes. According to the article, Fuentes was preparatore for almost the entire Spanish athletics team during the Olympics '92.
1995-1996
Fuentes starts working with Elche CF - a Spanish second division football team. In 1996, Barcelona try to buy Fuentes into an exclusive contract. He refuses.
1998
Fuentes moves to Kelme. He collaborates there with Nicolas Terrados - a man with his fingers deep in the Festina scandal. Terrados was also the preparatore of Johann Muehlegg - the German-born Spanish cross-country skier who was busted for doping in the Salt Lake City Olympics in 2002.
2001
Las Palmas FC (Spain) is involved with a scandal involving large numbers of syringes found in their dressing room. Doctor in the club? Fuentes, of course. Fuentes is also alleged to be involved in the doping affairs surrounding Marco Pantani, Dario Frigo, and Giuliano Figueras.
This is the heyday of Fuentes career. Although Fuentes is the official team doctor of Kelme, he will work for anyone willing to pay. It is said in Spanish sports circles that Fuentes not only makes or breaks careers; he also decides who wins the races - especially the Vuelta. This is the year that the Spanish press acuses Fuentes of having rigged the Vuelta win in favor of Angel Casero. Fuentes wins the ensuing defamation lawsuit.
2002
Aitor Gonzalez is the surprise winner of the Vuelta. He was suspected of doping at the time, though it took 2 years before he was caught. Instead, another Kelme rider is busted for doping.
FC Barcelona again try to buy Fuentes into the club. He refuses again.
At this time, La Gazzetta dello Sport alleges that Michele Bartoli regularly travels to the Canary Islands (Fuentes office) to purchase Aranesp.
2003
Jesus Manzano falls unconscious during the Tour de France. In 2004, Manzano explains that he was the victim of a blood transfusion gone wrong and exposes Fuentes.
2004
Fuentes is forced to leave his post at Kelme. His replacement is his sister, Yolanda Fuentes.
Tyler Hamilton and sensation-of-the-year Santiago Perez test positive for blood doping. Both are clients of Eufemanio Fuentes.
2005
Francisco Mancebo tells Patrick Lefevre that he works with Fuentes in a private conversation.
Fuentes goes back to work - this time with Liberty Seguros-Wurth and Manolo Saiz. He got the job through his good friend - and LSW team doctor - Alfredo Cordova. Cordova, of course, was also involved in both the Manzano and O.P. affair. The same year, Nuño Ribeiro och Isidro Nozal get busted for abnormal blood values. Roberto Heras wins the Vuelta - and is busted for doping.
2006
Operation Puerto hits the airwaves. Initial reports suggest that at least two hundred athletes are involved in the doping network - not only Cyclists, but also Basketball (Spain is defending World Champions and was runner-up in the 2007 Euro Championship), Football, athletics, and tennis players. This was initially confirmed by Fuentes in interviews, though he subsequently shut up.
In December, Le Monde publishes an article based on papers showing that Barcelona (winner of the Champions League 2005), Real Madrid, Valencia, and Betis were all clients of Fuentes. That basically takes care of all the top Football teams in Spain. Fuentes latter denied the rumors.
2007
The case against Eufemiano Fuentes is shelved by the Spanish courts. Latter this year, Fuentes is a speaker at a seminar organized by the Spanish Sports federation on the subject of doping.
The Guardia Civil has persistently been refused access to several harddisks seized from Eufemiano Fuentes and his partners. Why? The judge has dictated that they are not a part of the investigation. At the same time, funds to the investigation by the Guardia Civil have been cut off.
Now why would "someone" not want Fuentes brought to justice? Apart from the impact a full disclosure of Fuentes network could have (if even half of what is alleged is true), one may discern other reasons.
Back in 2006, the Guardia Civil raided Fuentes apartments in Spain... but they failed to raid one location: Fuentes apartments in Gran Canaria - his primary office. As a result, the Guardia Civil seized only a fraction of Fuentes customer sheets. No doubt, Fuentes has made sure those papers are now in a very, very safe place... to be released in their entirety to interested media outlets if Fuentes is ever convicted in a trial.
It was no leak in the Spanish Law Enforcement services that allowed Le Monde access to papers indicating doping in Spanish football last year. The Guardia Civil had never seized those particular papers - Le Monde received it from Fuentes himself. I suspect that someone got the message loud and clear...
It was in the same interview, incidentally, that Eufemanio Fuentes replied to a question about his connection with Barcelona and Real Madrid saying:
"I cannot answer that. I have received death threats. I was told that if I revealed certain things, I or my family could have serious problems. I was threatened three times, and I won't be threatened a fourth time."
J.R. wrote:
J.O. wrote:And that's with or without drugs too trollboy. 4.11 per mile for 26.2 miles.
I actually think it will take less than 100 years for that to happen, because I don't think it will take that long for marathon runners to increase their stride length by just under 10%
Do you have a web page or blog?
No, I don't take myself that seriously. After all, I only ran 73.4% of the Marathon pace that the letrun experts think is humanly impossible.
I think they are putting me on a pedestal, it was my weakest event, I was just pootling along.
J.O. wrote:I actually think it will take less than 100 years for that to happen, because I don't think it will take that long for marathon runners to increase their stride length by just under 10%
you seem to be unfamiliar with laws of physics/physiology
a 10% increase in stride means ~ similar ht increase
this means 10%^2 increase in surface area & 10%^3 in volume
volume is proportional to mass which is an assumed linear relationship to energy or power output
-> 10%^3 = 33% power increase
so that means for africans who are best current M'ers, you are asking for a 10% increase in ht but for them to find 33% increase in power/energy/etc to maintain the power/wt ratio
you are looking for a different species of homo erectus then the africans who are acknowledged to be best runners
where do you propose to find this genus on terra firma ?
Ventolin's hands again down his Tidey Whitey's, as he typed "homo erectus"..
I'm waiting for his inevitable use of the word "Uranus".
f*** off moron