Shoes created this nonsense. Sorry bruh, El G, Komen, Bekele, Geb, Coe, Cram, Ovett, and probably 10 others are (and will always be) ahead of you. But it’s hilarious that you think so highly of yourself. Guy still can’t break mile WR with a 3 second head start.
Shoes created this nonsense. Sorry bruh, El G, Komen, Bekele, Geb, Coe, Cram, Ovett, and probably 10 others are (and will always be) ahead of you. But it’s hilarious that you think so highly of yourself. Guy still can’t break mile WR with a 3 second head start.
So shoes disqualify Jakob but you have no issue with people like Coe who ran before mandatory drug testing was introduced in 1989?
As far as I know you are rather positive on Jakob but here you are too pessimistic in my opinion.
You say Jakob can take the 3000m and 5000m WRs WHEN HE SWITCHES HIS TRAINING AWAY FROM THE MILE.
I have stated for years that Jakob´s training always has been more suited for long distance running than the mile. Jakob has also himself at several occasions recently said the same, latest in the article which started this thread.
And: Jakob would possibly have taken the 3000m WR last year if he had run this distance in Paris instead of the 2 mile.
He could possibly also have broken the WR in the 5000m if a serious trial had been set up when he was in his 2mile/ 2000m WB/ WR shape. Don´t you think it would bepossible for him to run just under 60.5 per lap in a 5000m if he could run high 58 laps in the 2 mile?
He could possibly have broken the mile record in Brüssel if he had run this distance instead of the 2000m. He was just over half a second away in Eugene under suboptimal conditions (jetlag, wind, poor pacing and more).
He will also take the 1500m WR if he overcomes his injury problems because he will continue to improve. I think he could have gone sub 3:27 last year under optimum conditions so he was less than a seconds away.
Longer distances: Don´t you trust Jakob´s own evaluation of his abilities here?
I think people (especially the haters) will get a shock when Jakob runs his first competitive 10000m and HM. Sub 26:30 in the 10000m and sub 58 in the HM (in time trials).
Why do you think Jakob considers HM to be his best distance?
Because of his TRESHOLD PACE which he - opposite you and me - knows on decimals. So he knows which pace he can hold for approximately an hour. I guess the pace is about 23-24 km/hour.
He passed 20 km/hour years ago and as you know he has improved a lot on the longer distances the last years so his endurance must have improved accordingly.
We will if it comes to fruition, but as of yet the Norwegian method has proven to be optimal for 1,500-5,000. Andreas Almgren is maybe the most successful to move up at HM (59:23), but this result isn't better than his 5,000 time had he not fallen in the Diamond League last year. Bear in mind that two Ethiopian athletes (Kejelcha/Gebrhiwet) can run 57:40 while in 12:40 shape. So if we are to believe Jakob is best at the half marathon truly, the times would look something like 3:26high/3:43low/7:17/12:30/26:00/57:00. If he runs 26:2x or 57:5x, he is still better at the 3-5K. Since I have never seen speed as a limiting factor for him in any event 3K and up, I remain skeptical that the HM is truly his best event.
As far as I know you are rather positive on Jakob but here you are too pessimistic in my opinion.
You say Jakob can take the 3000m and 5000m WRs WHEN HE SWITCHES HIS TRAINING AWAY FROM THE MILE.
I have stated for years that Jakob´s training always has been more suited for long distance running than the mile. Jakob has also himself at several occasions recently said the same, latest in the article which started this thread.
And: Jakob would possibly have taken the 3000m WR last year if he had run this distance in Paris instead of the 2 mile.
He could possibly also have broken the WR in the 5000m if a serious trial had been set up when he was in his 2mile/ 2000m WB/ WR shape. Don´t you think it would bepossible for him to run just under 60.5 per lap in a 5000m if he could run high 58 laps in the 2 mile?
He could possibly have broken the mile record in Brüssel if he had run this distance instead of the 2000m. He was just over half a second away in Eugene under suboptimal conditions (jetlag, wind, poor pacing and more).
He will also take the 1500m WR if he overcomes his injury problems because he will continue to improve. I think he could have gone sub 3:27 last year under optimum conditions so he was less than a seconds away.
Longer distances: Don´t you trust Jakob´s own evaluation of his abilities here?
I think people (especially the haters) will get a shock when Jakob runs his first competitive 10000m and HM. Sub 26:30 in the 10000m and sub 58 in the HM (in time trials).
Why do you think Jakob considers HM to be his best distance?
Because of his TRESHOLD PACE which he - opposite you and me - knows on decimals. So he knows which pace he can hold for approximately an hour. I guess the pace is about 23-24 km/hour.
He passed 20 km/hour years ago and as you know he has improved a lot on the longer distances the last years so his endurance must have improved accordingly.
It’s tempting to compare athletes when it comes to distances and talent. But I don’t know if it’s wise -let me try anyways for the sake of it:
Is Jakob like Mo Farah -good in the 1500 / 5000 / 10000m, but not so excellent in the half and full marathon? Or was it only injuries and age that ruined Mo’s times in the two latter events..?
Or is Jakob more like Aouita (faster than Farah in the 800m) and with the talent in 1500 / 5000m?
Or is he a Bekele / Kipchoge type of runner (only faster in the 1500m): Excellent overall distance runner, even in the marathon..?
I would rule out the Aouita type (too fast in the 800m, too slow in the 10000m.) But maybe Komen could fit (3.29 / 12.39)? And no good 10000m…
Or is the female runners better examples: Assefa (a little slower in the 800m than Jakob, but marathon WR holder. Or Sifan Hassan: (a little faster than Jakob in the 800m, and next best in the marathon -2 min behind).
I know Jakob does a lot of mileage. But that doesn’t automatically give him an edge in the longer distances if the talent is in the shorter ones… But maybe one cannot compare (partly unfinished) athletes like this..?
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
I think Farah was solid in the half for his era. most likely would have pushed 58:00 flat if he experienced his entire prime with super shoes. I don't think he would have been down near 57:30. I just don't think he had the mentality for time trial type races.
Like the 800m and 880y were different... yes, the 1000y indoors!
2 times Mile WR - with a total improvement of 0.4 seconds. Bettered by 3 seconds within a few years.
Dumbstrong: at age 22 Snell has had 3 WRs in his "specialist" events.
He has had no WRs at age 22.
With 3 Olympic Golds and his great 800m WR Snell for sure is one of the legends in middle distance running.
So Snell was just 23 when he set his first world records. Such a difference from 22. Snell also began his career at 19 - unlike Jakob beginning his at 10 (and no doubt doping not long after - good old Gjert). But Snell set world records in recognised championship distances (and, yes, the 800m and 880y were typically run as separate events in that era, which is why he set out to break both records in the one race). Jakob has no world record over a championship distance. He likely never will. But keep listing his inferior achievements to console yourself about how "great" he is - or will be.
You said he has had three WRs at age 22. You already got it that you were wrong? After just three times of explaining? Must be some sort of record for you. Not very important for Snell's career, but it shows that you are too stupid for the most easycalculations. As so many many times before.
Exactly, it was one race, to list his two times for practically the same distance as separate achievements is a pure Armdumb.
That you see it necessary to mention that Snell continued after his 1:44.3 WR for an astonishing more 4.67 meters or 0.6% while slowing down shows how unsecure you are of his achievements. His times for 876 yards, for 877 yards, for 878 yards and for 879 yards also were the best ever achieved.
Also that he ran 2:17.8-1000m-pace for an astonishing 914.4 meters should really be set more in the focus. Definitely more than a lame 7:54.10 from Ingebrigtsen over 2 Miles, which bettered Komen’s 7:58.61 by 4.51 seconds, a mark which you have had equal to all other running WRs in terms of quality just 8 months ago. I’m different to you, for me Snell is one of the all-time greats (top 5 middle distance, top 15 – 20 all of distance running) even when he would have stopped after 1:44.3 minutes.
Ingebrigtsen is now 23 and we have to wait what he can achieve in the next years. For me, the times which he already has achieved up to age 22 are worth at least as much as Snell's PBs, even when those include a great 800m WR and a not so special Mile WR. We are 60 years later and Ingebrigtsen's string of PBs from 1500m to 5k is probably even better than the ones from Komen and El Guerrouj. But for sure that's my personal view of the subject.
The fact that you again and again call anybody who just tries to fairly value Ingebrigtsen's achievements a "Jakob fan boy" shows your unbelievable bias. I'm the opposite of a Jakob fan, but for sure I respect his great achievements. His talking is not for my liking and I root for Nuguse in Paris.
Nurmi's 9 Olympic Gold medals Gebrselassie 26 WRs El Guerrouj's 30+ sub 3:30 times Farah's no. of global titles Cheptegei's, ElG's and Komen's current WRs Keino's and Aouita's range Bekele's and Kipchoge's longevity Zatopek's triple Rono's record season Coe's two Golds Elliott's and Bayi's WRs in finals Moses' and Holloway's unbeaten records Beamon's % improvement
Bubka's no. of records
if stupidity would hurt...
Well, that it makes it easy for you - and Jakob. He doesn't have to be as good as any of the greats of the past. But you've long made that clear. He won't be. Jakob will be the GOAT but not as good as any named on your list. Does your stupidity hurt? It should be agonizing.
It's exactly your sort of "reasoning". To become the GOAT he has to better the best achievements of all of the other greats.
For you not the combination of Ingebrigtsen's achievements has to be better than the combination of the achievements for any other contender, but for you he has to top the best achievements of Bekele, the best achievements of Gebrselassie, the best achievements of El Guerrouj and so on...
I know that's way too difficult to understand for you. For sure you can top Farah without 10 global Golds; for sure you can top El Guerrouj without 30+ sub 3:30 times; for sure you can top Coe without two 1500m Golds.
So Snell was just 23 when he set his first world records. Such a difference from 22. Snell also began his career at 19 - unlike Jakob beginning his at 10 (and no doubt doping not long after - good old Gjert). But Snell set world records in recognised championship distances (and, yes, the 800m and 880y were typically run as separate events in that era, which is why he set out to break both records in the one race). Jakob has no world record over a championship distance. He likely never will. But keep listing his inferior achievements to console yourself about how "great" he is - or will be.
You said he has had three WRs at age 22. You already got it that you were wrong? After just three times of explaining? Must be some sort of record for you. Not very important for Snell's career, but it shows that you are too stupid for the most easycalculations. As so many many times before.
Exactly, it was one race, to list his two times for practically the same distance as separate achievements is a pure Armdumb.
That you see it necessary to mention that Snell continued after his 1:44.3 WR for an astonishing more 4.67 meters or 0.6% while slowing down shows how unsecure you are of his achievements. His times for 876 yards, for 877 yards, for 878 yards and for 879 yards also were the best ever achieved.
Also that he ran 2:17.8-1000m-pace for an astonishing 914.4 meters should really be set more in the focus. Definitely more than a lame 7:54.10 from Ingebrigtsen over 2 Miles, which bettered Komen’s 7:58.61 by 4.51 seconds, a mark which you have had equal to all other running WRs in terms of quality just 8 months ago. I’m different to you, for me Snell is one of the all-time greats (top 5 middle distance, top 15 – 20 all of distance running) even when he would have stopped after 1:44.3 minutes.
Ingebrigtsen is now 23 and we have to wait what he can achieve in the next years. For me, the times which he already has achieved up to age 22 are worth at least as much as Snell's PBs, even when those include a great 800m WR and a not so special Mile WR. We are 60 years later and Ingebrigtsen's string of PBs from 1500m to 5k is probably even better than the ones from Komen and El Guerrouj. But for sure that's my personal view of the subject.
The fact that you again and again call anybody who just tries to fairly value Ingebrigtsen's achievements a "Jakob fan boy" shows your unbelievable bias. I'm the opposite of a Jakob fan, but for sure I respect his great achievements. His talking is not for my liking and I root for Nuguse in Paris.
If I could put this waffle on paper I would have a toilet roll.
Well, that it makes it easy for you - and Jakob. He doesn't have to be as good as any of the greats of the past. But you've long made that clear. He won't be. Jakob will be the GOAT but not as good as any named on your list. Does your stupidity hurt? It should be agonizing.
It's exactly your sort of "reasoning". To become the GOAT he has to better the best achievements of all of the other greats.
For you not the combination of Ingebrigtsen's achievements has to be better than the combination of the achievements for any other contender, but for you he has to top the best achievements of Bekele, the best achievements of Gebrselassie, the best achievements of El Guerrouj and so on...
I know that's way too difficult to understand for you. For sure you can top Farah without 10 global Golds; for sure you can top El Guerrouj without 30+ sub 3:30 times; for sure you can top Coe without two 1500m Golds.
If he isn't better than the best before him then he can't be "the greatest of all time", can he? Sorry, that's a simple question but too hard for you. The standard they have set is far and away higher than "the combination of his achievements". They have done that through the combination of their own achievements. That you think he may match or even exceed them is pure fantasy.
There are two assumptions on this thread: one is a form of bias, which is that distance runners are the "best" runners, when the nature of their events typically enables them to run a greater range, from the 3000m at the lowest to the 10k, half marathon and marathon, and cross-country. The second assumption is that Jakob is a distance runner. Yet he is more like El G than Bekele.
Middle distance runners (800/1500, or 1500/5k) don't have the range of distance runners. But their abilities in their specialist events easily match and can exceed those of the best distance runners.
On the other point, which compares Jakob with runners like Bekele, Geb and Farah is that he is simply not that type of runner. He never will be. He will never win a championship 10k or marathon, or succeed at cross-country. He is an El G type of runner - a 1500-5k specialist. But in regard to their specialties El G is still better than Jakob and likely to remain so. There are also 800-1500 runners better than Jakob at their specialties and also 1500 specialists better than him.
It is probably impossible for any runner to be so complete and so comprehensive as to be "the greatest of all time" - whatever their specialty. But it won't be Jakob. There is too much for him to do.
This post was edited 20 seconds after it was posted.
Shoes created this nonsense. Sorry bruh, El G, Komen, Bekele, Geb, Coe, Cram, Ovett, and probably 10 others are (and will always be) ahead of you. But it’s hilarious that you think so highly of yourself. Guy still can’t break mile WR with a 3 second head start.
So shoes disqualify Jakob but you have no issue with people like Coe who ran before mandatory drug testing was introduced in 1989?
Wearing the shoes is a fact; claiming Coe doped is mere speculation. However if you think Coe was doped than Ingebrigtsen and his contemporaries in this era undoubtedly will be.
There are two assumptions on this thread: one is a form of bias, which is that distance runners are the "best" runners, when the nature of their events typically enables them to run a greater range, from the 3000m at the lowest to the 10k, half marathon and marathon, and cross-country. The second assumption is that Jakob is a distance runner. Yet he is more like El G than Bekele.
Middle distance runners (800/1500, or 1500/5k) don't have the range of distance runners. But their abilities in their specialist events easily match and can exceed those of the best distance runners.
On the other point, which compares Jakob with runners like Bekele, Geb and Farah is that he is simply not that type of runner. He never will be. He will never win a championship 10k or marathon, or succeed at cross-country. He is an El G type of runner - a 1500-5k specialist. But in regard to their specialties El G is still better than Jakob and likely to remain so. There are also 800-1500 runners better than Jakob at their specialties and also 1500 specialists better than him.
It is probably impossible for any runner to be so complete and so comprehensive as to be "the greatest of all time" - whatever their specialty. But it won't be Jakob. There is too much for him to do.
If I could put this waffle on paper I would have a toilet roll.
I reiterate: Listen to what Jakob says himself possibly because he knows his TRESHOLD PACE which is the pace he can roughly run for 1 hour.
I also gave you some estimated numbers: 23-24 km/hour. Try to make some calculations based on these numbers for his HM time and then come back to this thread.
He is a long distance runner who also run an "OK" 1500m.
There are two assumptions on this thread: one is a form of bias, which is that distance runners are the "best" runners, when the nature of their events typically enables them to run a greater range, from the 3000m at the lowest to the 10k, half marathon and marathon, and cross-country. The second assumption is that Jakob is a distance runner. Yet he is more like El G than Bekele.
Middle distance runners (800/1500, or 1500/5k) don't have the range of distance runners. But their abilities in their specialist events easily match and can exceed those of the best distance runners.
On the other point, which compares Jakob with runners like Bekele, Geb and Farah is that he is simply not that type of runner. He never will be. He will never win a championship 10k or marathon, or succeed at cross-country. He is an El G type of runner - a 1500-5k specialist. But in regard to their specialties El G is still better than Jakob and likely to remain so. There are also 800-1500 runners better than Jakob at their specialties and also 1500 specialists better than him.
It is probably impossible for any runner to be so complete and so comprehensive as to be "the greatest of all time" - whatever their specialty. But it won't be Jakob. There is too much for him to do.
If I could put this waffle on paper I would have a toilet roll.
Not very original. But since you apparently haven't understood it that would be its only use for you.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
I reiterate: Listen to what Jakob says himself possibly because he knows his TRESHOLD PACE which is the pace he can roughly run for 1 hour.
I also gave you some estimated numbers: 23-24 km/hour. Try to make some calculations based on these numbers for his HM time and then come back to this thread.
He is a long distance runner who also run an "OK" 1500m.
What he claims and what he can run aren't necessarily the same. When he runs a world class 10k or longer then he may be a distance runner.
There are two assumptions on this thread: one is a form of bias, which is that distance runners are the "best" runners, when the nature of their events typically enables them to run a greater range, from the 3000m at the lowest to the 10k, half marathon and marathon, and cross-country. The second assumption is that Jakob is a distance runner. Yet he is more like El G than Bekele.
Middle distance runners (800/1500, or 1500/5k) don't have the range of distance runners. But their abilities in their specialist events easily match and can exceed those of the best distance runners.
On the other point, which compares Jakob with runners like Bekele, Geb and Farah is that he is simply not that type of runner. He never will be. He will never win a championship 10k or marathon, or succeed at cross-country. He is an El G type of runner - a 1500-5k specialist. But in regard to their specialties El G is still better than Jakob and likely to remain so. There are also 800-1500 runners better than Jakob at their specialties and also 1500 specialists better than him.
It is probably impossible for any runner to be so complete and so comprehensive as to be "the greatest of all time" - whatever their specialty. But it won't be Jakob. There is too much for him to do.
5k is not middle distance, no, and do you seriously think Jakob doesn't know what his threshold pace is or how long he can sustain it when he says he's an aerobic runner and not anaerobic? You think he can't win a 10k championship when his 10k PB on road is 27:54, which he ran when he was 18 and in the middle of training for the mile for Tokyo?
this superspike talk is ridiculous. you are zeroing in on one factor on many that has improved running times over the years. i mean just think about it how slow times were back in the day. people even before superspikes had so many advantages compared to them. their shoes pre-superspike are probably like superspikes compared to shoes people were running in ages ago. or even qualities of track. etc etc. no point in zeroing on this one factor when its small in scheme of things.
You said he has had three WRs at age 22. You already got it that you were wrong? After just three times of explaining? Must be some sort of record for you. Not very important for Snell's career, but it shows that you are too stupid for the most easycalculations. As so many many times before.
Exactly, it was one race, to list his two times for practically the same distance as separate achievements is a pure Armdumb.
That you see it necessary to mention that Snell continued after his 1:44.3 WR for an astonishing more 4.67 meters or 0.6% while slowing down shows how unsecure you are of his achievements. His times for 876 yards, for 877 yards, for 878 yards and for 879 yards also were the best ever achieved.
Also that he ran 2:17.8-1000m-pace for an astonishing 914.4 meters should really be set more in the focus. Definitely more than a lame 7:54.10 from Ingebrigtsen over 2 Miles, which bettered Komen’s 7:58.61 by 4.51 seconds, a mark which you have had equal to all other running WRs in terms of quality just 8 months ago. I’m different to you, for me Snell is one of the all-time greats (top 5 middle distance, top 15 – 20 all of distance running) even when he would have stopped after 1:44.3 minutes.
Ingebrigtsen is now 23 and we have to wait what he can achieve in the next years. For me, the times which he already has achieved up to age 22 are worth at least as much as Snell's PBs, even when those include a great 800m WR and a not so special Mile WR. We are 60 years later and Ingebrigtsen's string of PBs from 1500m to 5k is probably even better than the ones from Komen and El Guerrouj. But for sure that's my personal view of the subject.
The fact that you again and again call anybody who just tries to fairly value Ingebrigtsen's achievements a "Jakob fan boy" shows your unbelievable bias. I'm the opposite of a Jakob fan, but for sure I respect his great achievements. His talking is not for my liking and I root for Nuguse in Paris.
If I could put this waffle on paper I would have a toilet roll.
You are not able to do it?
7:58.61 from Komen for you was as strong as any other running WR. Ingebrigtsen has bettered this mark last year by 4.51 seconds. This new record definitely is stronger than Komen's 7:20.67.
Some have had El Guerrouj's 4:44.79 as strong as his other records. Ingebrigtsen has bettered this mark by 1.66 seconds.
How do you rank those two records?
Who was the best 1500m runner of the last three seasons for you?
Who was the best 5000m runner of the last three seasons for you?
Who was the best distance runner of the last three seasons for you?