Theres no such thing as an "EPO era". The EPO era is still ongoing,and track and field is dirtier than it has ever been.Rife with EPO,blood doping,steroids,HGH and peptides,often in unhealthy dangerous cocktails.Other sports such as weightlifting,cycling, tennis ,power lifting the various football codes,rowing,kayaking,basketball,baseball and swimming are also very bad,some of those sports being worse than others.
Twoggle,
I didn't bother to include those because they are so far fetched as to be nearly impossible.
If her body produced it clearly there would have been a history of this in her tests. There is not. Beef, pork, whatever. The difference there is noise and meaningless. It would.still require the same incredibly low probability events to occur compounded. Sabotage is so low of a possibility it's not even worth speculating. And there are not, to my knowledge, any allegations of bad testing as both samples confirmed it.
avenue A wrote:
SH was using a PED that she didn’t think would test. She’d been assured it wouldn’t test. So she wasn’t worried about her test on December 15.
Same goes for all the other Nike athletes who abruptly pulled out of Trials citing chronic injury or some such. These were Nike athletes from a variety of groups and events, not just BTC. Probably what they had in common was medical support.
Either a whistleblower stepped in so AIU could ID the designer PED or there’s a new test for later stage metabolites or by using a different pathway. Banned I got had the right idea with the chemistry.
The spate of WDs is because athletes are scared of tests or are scared that they’re about to be notified of an adverse finding.
The simple answer to ‘what was SH doing?’ Is she was taking PEDs to gain an advantage in races. Pretty simple. Pretty obvious.
thanks...this person gets it, i dont know why ivy league education cant seem to gather it....there was a whistleblower and now there is carnage
FatX64 wrote:
wejo,
I am Mexican American raised in a Mexican Chinese family and by Mexican fast food in California. I ate offal (had to look up the term) at least once a week
lots of warning flags
1. She said she ate pig offal in a burrito. Hmmm. If she ate chorizo or cabeza or lengua she would have been more credible. Even so, in a burrito? No chance.
2. I never met a single Anglo person who ever ate offal on anything but a nibble and that on a dare.
3. Offal most common to Mexican cuisine is beef and chicken. Had that often. But I had pork innards, tripa, was far less frequently. Other things were one of offs and would have memorable to an Irish-American.
4. In all of the above she would have remembered the dish not the technically correct English physiological term. Sesos, tripa, and all other funky things. but no way in hell would an Anglo chick order these anything larger than a single taco, and on a dare unless raised eating it. Even chorizo is not going to be eaten in a burrito unless the person is really into it.
5. Why in God's name would she eat pork offal versus other delicious options like al pastor or carnitas? or beef or chicken options? I eat offal to remind myself of my Mom and abuela. if she ordered it, it would have stuck clearly in her mind.
Her story has zero credibility and seems manufactured by a cocksure lawyer.
I will not say she is guilty, but her story is bull crap.
FatX64, pig offal is everywhere. We just pretend it's not there.
1. After reading multiple accounts, I believe she consumed a pork chorizo burrito. Chorizo is particularly useful in preparing uncastrated male pig meat because it would cover the smell of any boar taint. Uncastrated male pig would be very inexpensive to source and is perfectly fine to eat.
2. Are you saying you never met an Angle person who has eaten pepperoni, bratwursts, hot dogs, liverwurst, bologna, etc., etc. Really? Pork sausage products are all over the place.
3. Sure, but pork offal is not unusual in many communities. I mean, anyone can buy pig liver from their butcher or certain supermarkets if they want to. Some might find the 3-part "Beginner's Guide to Offal Tacos By The Offalo" at LA Taco relevant and interesting.
4. I have seen an image of a Mexican food truck in Beaverton. Looking at the menu, it does not seem unlikely at all that someone in her group order a pork sausage (chorizo) burrito, or that a couple chorizo burritos were placed in there by mistake. It and the other speciality meats on sale are not some secret specialty only available to Mexicans. It could also be that the steak in her burrito was prepared in the grease and leftovers from some freshly grilled chorizo.
5. She said she ordered " carne asada" and it sounded like there were other people with her. Sometimes, things get mixed up, either during the ordering process, or food preparation, or just when sharing food.
moultonk wrote:
FatX64 wrote:
wejo,
I am Mexican American raised in a Mexican Chinese family and by Mexican fast food in California. I ate offal (had to look up the term) at least once a week
lots of warning flags
1. She said she ate pig offal in a burrito. Hmmm. If she ate chorizo or cabeza or lengua she would have been more credible. Even so, in a burrito? No chance.
2. I never met a single Anglo person who ever ate offal on anything but a nibble and that on a dare.
3. Offal most common to Mexican cuisine is beef and chicken. Had that often. But I had pork innards, tripa, was far less frequently. Other things were one of offs and would have memorable to an Irish-American.
4. In all of the above she would have remembered the dish not the technically correct English physiological term. Sesos, tripa, and all other funky things. but no way in hell would an Anglo chick order these anything larger than a single taco, and on a dare unless raised eating it. Even chorizo is not going to be eaten in a burrito unless the person is really into it.
5. Why in God's name would she eat pork offal versus other delicious options like al pastor or carnitas? or beef or chicken options? I eat offal to remind myself of my Mom and abuela. if she ordered it, it would have stuck clearly in her mind.
Her story has zero credibility and seems manufactured by a cocksure lawyer.
I will not say she is guilty, but her story is bull crap.
FatX64, pig offal is everywhere. We just pretend it's not there.
1. After reading multiple accounts, I believe she consumed a pork chorizo burrito. Chorizo is particularly useful in preparing uncastrated male pig meat because it would cover the smell of any boar taint. Uncastrated male pig would be very inexpensive to source and is perfectly fine to eat.
2. Are you saying you never met an Angle person who has eaten pepperoni, bratwursts, hot dogs, liverwurst, bologna, etc., etc. Really? Pork sausage products are all over the place.
3. Sure, but pork offal is not unusual in many communities. I mean, anyone can buy pig liver from their butcher or certain supermarkets if they want to. Some might find the 3-part "Beginner's Guide to Offal Tacos By The Offalo" at LA Taco relevant and interesting.
4. I have seen an image of a Mexican food truck in Beaverton. Looking at the menu, it does not seem unlikely at all that someone in her group order a pork sausage (chorizo) burrito, or that a couple chorizo burritos were placed in there by mistake. It and the other speciality meats on sale are not some secret specialty only available to Mexicans. It could also be that the steak in her burrito was prepared in the grease and leftovers from some freshly grilled chorizo.
5. She said she ordered " carne asada" and it sounded like there were other people with her. Sometimes, things get mixed up, either during the ordering process, or food preparation, or just when sharing food.
A belief and a fact are two different things. If you can’t prove anything besides guessing you are really just stating your own internal biases of what you wish to be the “truth”.
pupil3142 wrote:
twoggle wrote:
When I look at the flowchart on the last page of the WADA technical document, once the source is determined to be endogenous, that is when they are supposed to use the 19-NA:19-NE ratio to choose between two non-drug offences: negative finding or atypical finding.
I’m sure the Houlihan team cannot know the exact diet of uncastrated pigs (“boars”). But as everyone knows, farm animal diets can vary quite a bit from formulated feed to grain to free-range grazing. When I was “feeding” pigs in an orchard growing up, we used to throw fruit and everythin else in the pen to watch them eat it.
you threw stuff at pigs?
you are defo a nike shill
Un-pitted German peaches are loaded with nandrolone
wejo wrote:
It's been acknowledged that the nandrolone Shelby took wasn't injected. Others have said it would be foolish to take it orally as the affects would be minimal.
So for those of you who think Shelby was doping how do you think it got in her system? What was she doing?
And also why would 30 Kenyans test positive for Nandrolone
https://twitter.com/jamie_langley1/status/1405443374237224960?s=21if it's not helpful to distance runners?
I'm assuming some people are in the camp it was in her system, its' a banned substance they don't care why, but I'm posing the questions to people who think she was doping.
I believe that WADA is saying that the nandrolone in Shelby's system is NOT from a food source.
DownandOut44 wrote:
A belief and a fact are two different things. If you can’t prove anything besides guessing you are really just stating your own internal biases of what you wish to be the “truth”.
Doesn’t that describe every poster in all of these Shelby threads?
rekrunner wrote:
DownandOut44 wrote:
A belief and a fact are two different things. If you can’t prove anything besides guessing you are really just stating your own internal biases of what you wish to be the “truth”.
Doesn’t that describe every poster in all of these Shelby threads?
Are you included?
So she didn't test positive for nandrolone, with her excuse not accepted by CAS, resulting in a 4 year ban? That's just some form of belief or bias, not fact?
jewbacca wrote:
After a bit of reading, WADA has procedures in place to 1) Identify exogenous vs endogenous nandrolone, 2) Account for pregnancy, and 3) Account for birth control meds. I'm sorry, Avocado's, but this tears you argument to pieces.
According to the literature, exogenous vs endogenous steroids are differentiated by carbon13 isotope ratio in the metabolites. The test method (GC/C/MS) is new and wasn't available 16 years ago when Avocado's discussed this in his oldguy thread. This paper discusses the process in horses, and the same instrumentation/technique is referenced in the WADA technical document.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17714906/I'm assuming if Houlihan's appeal was rejected, GC/C/MS proved the nandrolone derivatives in her urine were exogenous. If that's the case, she is unquestionably a cheat.
https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/td2019na_final_eng_clean.pdf
The key part in all of this. CAS is a softy, bleeding heart outfit that always goes soft on cheats, if they think she's a cheat.....well she likely is.
avenue A wrote:
SH was using a PED that she didn’t think would test. She’d been assured it wouldn’t test. So she wasn’t worried about her test on December 15.
Same goes for all the other Nike athletes who abruptly pulled out of Trials citing chronic injury or some such. These were Nike athletes from a variety of groups and events, not just BTC. Probably what they had in common was medical support.
Either a whistleblower stepped in so AIU could ID the designer PED or there’s a new test for later stage metabolites or by using a different pathway. Banned I got had the right idea with the chemistry.
The spate of WDs is because athletes are scared of tests or are scared that they’re about to be notified of an adverse finding.
The simple answer to ‘what was SH doing?’ Is she was taking PEDs to gain an advantage in races. Pretty simple. Pretty obvious.
I suspect that WADA has unlocked some sort of designer steriod based around Nandrolone that may decay in such a way as to given athletes the old tainted steak back up. There must be some masking agent and they are keeping their lips shut on what they've found. Sounds ridiculous but the evidence of the last 30 years suggests that this is highly likely.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Are you included?
So she didn't test positive for nandrolone, with her excuse not accepted by CAS, resulting in a 4 year ban? That's just some form of belief or bias, not fact?
I haven’t doubted her test results and I know what the CAS panel determined.
Yet many relevant facts have not been made public.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Are you included?
So she didn't test positive for nandrolone, with her excuse not accepted by CAS, resulting in a 4 year ban? That's just some form of belief or bias, not fact?
I haven’t doubted her test results and I know what the CAS panel determined.
Yet many relevant facts have not been made public.
How do you know what those facts are and whether they are relevant if they haven't been made public?
Subway Surfers wrote:
jewbacca wrote:
After a bit of reading, WADA has procedures in place to 1) Identify exogenous vs endogenous nandrolone, 2) Account for pregnancy, and 3) Account for birth control meds. I'm sorry, Avocado's, but this tears you argument to pieces.
According to the literature, exogenous vs endogenous steroids are differentiated by carbon13 isotope ratio in the metabolites. The test method (GC/C/MS) is new and wasn't available 16 years ago when Avocado's discussed this in his oldguy thread. This paper discusses the process in horses, and the same instrumentation/technique is referenced in the WADA technical document.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17714906/I'm assuming if Houlihan's appeal was rejected, GC/C/MS proved the nandrolone derivatives in her urine were exogenous. If that's the case, she is unquestionably a cheat.
https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/td2019na_final_eng_clean.pdfThe key part in all of this. CAS is a softy, bleeding heart outfit that always goes soft on cheats, if they think she's a cheat.....well she likely is.
what you are missing is that nandrolone is synthetic and can be manufactured to give a close exogenous result.
couple this with the 'varied diet of boars' and the carbon isotope test becomes unreliable.
that is when they need to do pharmodynamics, which they didnt do, or maybe some other test that Yollate wittered on about during the CAS hearing, that will never be released.
Armstronglivs wrote:
I haven’t doubted her test results and I know what the CAS panel determined.
Yet many relevant facts have not been made public.
How do you know what those facts are and whether they are relevant if they haven't been made public?[/quote]
Some facts have been made public.
Reposting…
Some facts have been made public.
Subway Surfers wrote:
avenue A wrote:
SH was using a PED that she didn’t think would test. She’d been assured it wouldn’t test. So she wasn’t worried about her test on December 15.
Same goes for all the other Nike athletes who abruptly pulled out of Trials citing chronic injury or some such. These were Nike athletes from a variety of groups and events, not just BTC. Probably what they had in common was medical support.
Either a whistleblower stepped in so AIU could ID the designer PED or there’s a new test for later stage metabolites or by using a different pathway. Banned I got had the right idea with the chemistry.
The spate of WDs is because athletes are scared of tests or are scared that they’re about to be notified of an adverse finding.
The simple answer to ‘what was SH doing?’ Is she was taking PEDs to gain an advantage in races. Pretty simple. Pretty obvious.
I suspect that WADA has unlocked some sort of designer steriod based around Nandrolone that may decay in such a way as to given athletes the old tainted steak back up. There must be some masking agent and they are keeping their lips shut on what they've found. Sounds ridiculous but the evidence of the last 30 years suggests that this is highly likely.
ahhh yes haha subway! i knew there was someone else who was on page with me and casual! long time ol buddy!
this is what i think as well. its a designer that NOP was on, that got ruppy poop and mo to fast times. jerry was able to use it as well as they both are part of nikes camp.
al sal feeling super bitter about all things and his hatred for jerry led him to be the anonymous whistleblower and gave the authorities the inside scoop with goods like trevor graham did a decade ago with THG.
the glow period on this is prob super short plus the metabolites it produced prob comes off as natural nandrolone, unless its looked at closely then it comes back as this is synthetic. again no way shelbs and jerry f*cked up, this was a new designer roid that had passed every test for years, and the only way for it to be a bust is an inside snitch.
if they are smart they will go back and retest a bunch of people for the last couple years and more than likely find the same synthetic cursers that now they can look for
this is good article...remember ol bolt claiming it was all yams? haha
"Since the four ring carbon structure was extremely complicated for synthetic chemists to create, they have historically created most steroidal compounds from diosgenin, a steroidal substance occurring naturally in the Mexican wild yam"
wow this article was eye opening got to love this part
""If no one had done anything about it, it would have been just a designer steroid supplement shelf at every GNC, not tested for safety. People would be getting sick, it would’ve been a nightmare, and it was becoming a nightmare. So it had to go away. Human nature. We thought that we could contain it to where it would’ve been OK, but it was impossible. The greed of people, the stupidity of people just took over."
awesome that he is a bad a$$ chemist and now uses his brain to do good for people and not out there making money on narcissistic athletes who never thanked him for his ability to make them super human
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I haven’t doubted her test results and I know what the CAS panel determined.
Yet many relevant facts have not been made public.
How do you know what those facts are and whether they are relevant if they haven't been made public?
Some facts have been made public.[/quote]
But not the "relevant" ones? Are you having a stroke?