LateRunnerPhil - Tinman Training Through Summer to 5k PR in Sep (Goal ~15:30)

Is it David45? wrote:

Jan Stensson , Coach JS wrote:

Yeah! LoL , really entertaining comics this . Like Duffy Duck at training camp.

Says the Magical Marsian who trains imaginary athlete's

hehe )) you will never guess who I am.

Have you considered NOT trying to fit all workouts (tempo, reps, LR) into a single week? Sounds like you need more time to recover in between hard efforts and since you’re not on the high school track team or a pro running trying to make a race deadline there’s absolutely no reason to try to force feed yourself all that in a 7 day period.

Also, for god’s sake, Tinman’s ‘keep the ball rolling above all else’ thing does not imply training through injury....you are lying to yourself again. He’s implying more moderate paces and, if at all, pushing the pace on days that you feel really good. Training though injury just means your off the rails unless you’re just jogging in the grass.

phil, please ask rojo to delete this thread before you become the - so to say - florence foster jenkins in the world of athletics.

you must have realized that the people are kidding you all over the message board .

the main goal of every intelligent training approach is to stay injury free.

Hakuna Matata wrote:

Is it David45? wrote:

Says the Magical Marsian who trains imaginary athlete's

hehe )) you will never guess who I am.

With all the Jan's around here + his many, many, many alter ego's... guess your wright ;-)

Phil,

Generally, I like the Tinman approach to training and appreciate your ability and willingness in your case to elaborate on it. However, a one size fits all shoe for everyone, no pun intended, isn’t necessarily the correct approach for you. I think if you worked off a ten day cycle instead of a seven day cycle, you would have more success. And, yes, that includes, shudder, one day off, where perhaps you can cross train by cycling or running in the pool. Something akin to this:

1 - easy run

2 - easy run

3 - CV workout

4 - easy run

5 - easy run

6 - tempo

7 - easy run

8 - easy run

9 - long run, progressive if you feel good

10 - off

The long run really is like another hard workout, no matter how you run it, and I feel like people don’t give it as much respect as they need too. Also, a full day off to let microtearing and scarring heal for anyone is just a really good idea. Even younger runners, but especially older runners.

I wouldn’t take for granted the 2 easy days is enough....zero reason why he couldn’t take 3,4 or maybe more in between.....if the legs aren’t ready for more they’re not ready. Planning schedules just gets you injured.

LRP how did the 3k TT go? i know you said you are injured, but injury should not be reason not to TT, you know keep the ball rolling.

Presumably in a circle if he’s running on one leg

Sweet Jesus, Phil!!!!

You stopped running for three days and then took two days of easy running to recover.

And then:

Monday: Long Run 21.10 km 4:30 /km 1h 35m

Tuesday: Easy Run & 6 x 20s strides 11.87 km 4:38 /km 55m 2s

Wednesday:

A.M. T - 3 x 1000m in ~3:45

(Weird workout on soft surface. Couldn't get going this time, decided to split it and try the other half in the evening on the track. Splits: 3:30-3:50-3:47 ..)

P.M. CV - 3 x 1000m in 3:18, 200m rest & 4 x 200m in 34-31-30-28

(Very smooth, even the warm-up was fast. Not sure what changed compared to the morning, but this time I had fun and was rolling. Warm-up/CD in Clifton, quality in Next%. Even with low cadence, the Next% is very fast on 200s and legs feel super fresh after.

Splits: 3:19-3:18-3:16, 34-31-30-28)

What on earth are you doing?

Hopefully not too much too soon.

I’m

Not following your point here specifically...

He ran a relatively slow/short long run, a shorter easy day and split a shortish 8kish pace workout in two? This doesn’t seem that crazy to me...

highhoppingworm wrote:

I’m

Not following your point here specifically...

He ran a relatively slow/short long run, a shorter easy day and split a shortish 8kish pace workout in two? This doesn’t seem that crazy to me...

My guess is that he meant Phil is doing too much too soon.

That's a long run and speed work right after having to stop because of an injury.

We tried helping, he doesn't listen.

The best thing we can do for him now is to ignore his posts so he just leaves this awful place and hopefully can move on with his life.

And he ignores this thread even though he reads it.

Today an "easy run":

"Easy Run

Very enjoyable. Focus on recovery -> a lot faster and feeling a lot better on easy runs. Also ~1 min/mile faster compared to fatigued legs."

1 min/mile faster???

You finish an easy run with a mile in 6 minutes...

I mean, nothing wrong with that per se, but in the context?

I think he means he ran 1 min/mile faster due to his focus on recovery? After he did a double to split up a workout, I’m not really sure pushing the easy run even if he feels good is the move. Sometimes forcing yourself to take it very easy is beneficial in the long run.

Running just feels very good atm. It's not a struggle/grind anymore when my legs aren't beat up, I guess that's how it should feel. Before I was just training for the sake of it, slogging through each run through various kinds of pain.

In the 3-4 days off due to the foot injury (that got better every day, probably ligament issue) my shins that have chronic pain got a lot better.

I always thought training through the leg pain and getting all mileage and workouts done is the right thing, I excused myself for running 8-9 min pace on easy days when everything faster would just hurt too much in the legs because Kenyan's are running slow too, but the difference is they choose to run that pace voluntarily while I was forced into it due to leg pain and soreness.

As a result, I was never running with skill. 8-9 min/mile pace is just unnatural for me as more fast-twitcher and tall person. And workouts always started with painful legs, I had to spend the whole warm-up just to prepare my body to 'endure' the reps afterwards through adrenaline.

I will do some time-trials on a variety of distances in the next weeks, hopefully I can find some virtual runs too. Maybe I'm just having a few good days, or am too pumped/hyped since my injury healed fast and am running more at moderate/easy tempo effort than easy, but we will see, it remains interesting.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

As a result, I was never running with skill. 8-9 min/mile pace is just unnatural for me as more fast-twitcher and tall person.

I would quibble with this one a bit Phil. It was unnatural because you were only running that slow because you were too injured and fatigued to run faster. If you, in your current healthy state, were to run with someone at 8:15 pace on a conversational run I suspect your body would adjust just fine. I don't think you're fast-twitchiness and height has much to do with it. I've known some guys of all heights with not much speed but tons of endurance (think 4:50 milers, who could break 33 in the 10K) who could run 6:30-6:50 pace any day of the week and recover.

For you, listening to your body will be key. Yes, some days your legs will feel tired and getting out there may be a chore. Fighting through injury and adjusting your stride/trying to trick your body is not part of any training program.

Ok, there are 16 pages here and not one 5k TT. Is this normal?

Most of the coaching philosophies I've read base their training plans off of current fitness. Usually a recent race is used to asses fitness. McMillan,Daniels, Tinman all have calculators/tables that take recent races and prescribe training times.

I've been doing a 5k every couple of months just to assess fitness. Do other people do this, just go by feel, or do some other method?