Explosive New York Times article: Mary Cain breaks silence about NOP

"a normal person?" these kinds of statements are so stigmatizing of mental illness. someone close to you, someone you don't know about, has at least had these thoughts. maybe if you showed a little compassion you'd even notice.

Very interesting post. You admit Salazar may be batshit crazy but acknowledge the piece was edited perfectly for today's climate.

I thought everything was very well done but think the men vs women's thing is overblown a little bit. That being said, I 100% agree with Cain that if more women were involved, things would be different but don't think this whole thing is some male vs female thing.

In the actual article by Crouse, I didn't really like Lauren Fleshman's article about how society is ready to especialy exploit the next young girl. We are ready to exploit all teen phenoms. Anyone remember Freddy Adu? What about Jakob Ingebrigtsen? He's huge because he's a teen. Yes there is something weirdthing about the pre-pubescent gymnasts but in general I think the world is obssessed with youth and the next big thing.

I do think it's worth pointing out that the woman who put the video together - Lynsey Crouse - does good work but it's clear she's very much into this women's movement. I mean take a look at her twitter from this weekend. Here is what she tweeted mid-race, "Another good @ShalaneFlanagan bit, a clarifying interjection: “Women are just tougher, Tim.”

Can you imagine if a man went ga-ga over another man saying "Men are just tougher." Or what if a white guy said, "Whites are just smarter."

So yes a bit of the story is Salazar/Nike piling on but it's also deserved.

Salazar reminds of Bobby Knight/Woody Hayes, etc. They were all great coaches but eventually the time passed their ways by.

A lot of the posters have spent a lot of time talking about MC losing weight to get faster. The real issue is not whether MC would perform better over the long haul at a lighter weight; the issue is the methodologies Alberto used to try and make her lose weight: telling her to take diuretics, public shaming, public weigh ins, etc. are all abusive and shouldn't have been used for any athlete, let alone an 18 year old living away from home. Alberto (and his assistants?) then obviously compounded the abusiveness by failing to listen to MC's communications about the negative effects of his approach on her.

Zion Williamson wrote:

Nike almost ruined my career with their janky shoes. Now people trying to tell me to lose weight too. Enough is enough #Ibelievemary #metoo

POD. Very clever. We need upvotes.

Philip Exeter CC wrote:

I feel for Mary, but Alberto's methods maybe just triggered something inside her that was already there. A normal person wouldn't resort to cutting wrists. If she needed a pyschologist that is valid, but why blame NOP for not having one when she could have freely sought out her own? In fact, probably better to have the seperation.

Alberto has done a lot of good, and in the judgement of some not so good for the sport. On the whole, his record as one of the best remains despite the attempts of social media and cancel culture to dictate otherwise.

I'm sure nike had the resources to provide her a psychologist.

Philip Exeter CC wrote:

bravie wrote:

Ok, "philip exeter" elitist. Buh bye

Agree, see you later! Polite of you to announce your intention to leave the thread instead of the ol' Irish goodbye

Talk to the hand. Triggered much?

So, she had a breast reduction, what of it?

Philip Exeter CC wrote:

I feel for Mary, but Alberto's methods maybe just triggered something inside her that was already there. A normal person wouldn't resort to cutting wrists. If she needed a pyschologist that is valid, but why blame NOP for not having one when she could have freely sought out her own? In fact, probably better to have the seperation.

Alberto has done a lot of good, and in the judgement of some not so good for the sport. On the whole, his record as one of the best remains despite the attempts of social media and cancel culture to dictate otherwise.

she was only 18 when she joined Nike. basically still a kid. when you're an athlete in a running program, you're supposed to following instructions given by your coach because your coach supposedly knows more than you. alberto clearly didn't care about the problems she faced as a women that men do not have to worry about. NOP was created for elite level athletes that was backed by a billion dollar company. there should have been separate doctors getting involved and approving/disproving all the things that they fed and did to their athletes. they neglected all of this.

dasdasdsadadaadsd wrote:

ROJO can you explain why you are ok with this thread evolving over unsubstantiated claims yet you guys removed the thread earlier this week comparing Rupp and Hall, and how Hall might have been dirty too?

I don't delete threads. A volunteer deleted it. I put it back up as I agree it should be fair game. I made it so that yu have to be a registered user to talk about it however but also made it so no one can delete the thread.

rojo wrote:

Zion Williamson wrote:

Nike almost ruined my career with their janky shoes. Now people trying to tell me to lose weight too. Enough is enough #Ibelievemary #metoo

POD. Very clever. We need upvotes.

Before you get to that part how about you work on a little web 101 and put together a website from the 21st century

So? wrote:

So, she had a breast reduction, what of it?

And another four years of training, competing and developing. It's what often happens, funny that.

Leave those kids alone wrote:

Mary Cain? There have been others. Does Caitlin Chick sound familiar?

Exactly. Similar thing happened to Caitlin Chock. Huge HS phenom with the same end result.

yes but genetics also plays a role in how thin a person can get to. do you think those africans had to do the things that mary cain was made to do to get skinny? kiprop was definitely a cheater, but i doubt he did things to get as skinny as he was. i'm no biologist and just a hobby jogger, so i'm probably wrong, but this are just my opinion

Actually, your comments are false and misguided.

You should not diffuse or excuse the abuse and neglect Cain was subjected to. It went far beyond pure stupidity, this was pure evil. Psychopathy with a marketing department is not good for the sport.

Meanwhile your training terminology and mindset are outdated. Neither high nor low intensity training is inheritently unhealthy. That’s astoudingly simplistic spin on what in truth amounted to years of sadistic inexcusable abuse.

Her courage, strength and clarity are an inspiration.

Pfffffff wrote:

rojo wrote:

POD. Very clever. We need upvotes.

Before you get to that part how about you work on a little web 101 and put together a website from the 21st century

If it ain't broke, i.e. generating millions of clicks, why fix it?

But yeah, upvotes, and down, would be nice.

Philip Exeter CC wrote:

I feel for Mary, but Alberto's methods maybe just triggered something inside her that was already there. A normal person wouldn't resort to cutting wrists. If she needed a pyschologist that is valid, but why blame NOP for not having one when she could have freely sought out her own? In fact, probably better to have the seperation.

Alberto has done a lot of good, and in the judgement of some not so good for the sport. On the whole, his record as one of the best remains despite the attempts of social media and cancel culture to dictate otherwise.

Hi rekrunner!

Good thing that cheat got finally banned. All your PR didn't rescue him, fortunately.

dsdaaa wrote:

Leave those kids alone wrote:

Mary Cain? There have been others. Does Caitlin Chick sound familiar?

Exactly. Similar thing happened to Caitlin Chock. Huge HS phenom with the same end result.

Maybe the common denominator was they were HS athletes not ready for the transition to the pros. Rupp went to Oregon and at least had time as a non-professional to still develop. Hasay did the same thing and handled being with Salazar just fine. There might be a lot to the fact that they were still too young to handle the stress of being with his group. Another coach probably would have been a lot better.

“pure evil”

You obviously don’t have a clue what pure evil is. Nazi Germany was pure evil.

Al Sal just wasn’t a very good coach for Mary. She recognized it and got out before it killed her. The choice to work with him at NOP was her choice.

Drama linked Salazar wrote:

Every time a new article comes out on Alberto it’s “explosive or breaking”. When I read them I’ll left thinking it was way overblown. The suicide thing here is alarming but Mary kinda glosses over it “they went to bed”. Makes me wonder if it actually happened like she described it where it wasn’t actually voiced.

So here I am again wondering why every time Alberto’s name is brought up people act like he’s committing crimes. He told a pro athlete to lose weight, people are upset because she was young, but she was a pro athlete. This feels more to me like the same Nike/Alberto bashing.

So you don't think it's breaking news to report that arguably America's greatest HS prodigy was cutting herself within years of joining the NOP? Then I guess nothing will be breaking to you.