"The Boston Marathon Was Fixed" thread.

So to speak wrote:

She ran a PR.

Star wrote:

Women aren't as cooperative with these things.

And Shalane didn't run as well as Meb.

But she didn't finish well.

It would have looked too obvious if all the women behind her died the same way she did in order to finish behind her.

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Bro this is the court of law here. If you want to talk to this guy you cannot speculate about anything or express any views that are not 100% verfied with an acceptable p-value.

Some of you seem to live some pretty mundane lives. I can't imagine real life boring conversations with you.

"Hmm I think this ketchup tastes better"

....

"Wait, do you have data to prove it tastes better? You can't just say that as fact and walk away.

I think a better analogy would be this:

You: "I don't think this is ketchup. I think it's red mind control sauce formulated by the CIA."

Other Person: "Why do you say that? It's in a ketchup bottle. Why don't you just assume it's ketchup?"

You: "Don't you notice that this ketchup seems thicker than usual ketchup? Also, have you noticed that the price of ketchup has gone up recently?"

Other Person: "So besides those observations, do you have any evidence that the ketchup is actually formulated by the CIA?"

You: "I don't need evidence! It's just common sense!"

Rock on, ConspiracyTheorist.

Star wrote:

So to speak wrote:

She ran a PR.

But she didn't finish well.

It would have looked too obvious if all the women behind her died the same way she did in order to finish behind her.

Besides which, it is an exceptionally lame argument.

"They could have fixed the women's race instead of the men's. Since they did not fix the women's race it follows that they must not have fixed the men's."

Dumber than dumb.

So, if 'Probably run again' is correct that this is "the best argument" then there is no argument against the idea that the fix was in.

grox wrote:

Chooomsky wrote:

But... my debate students point out that the burden of proof rests upon the conspiracy theorists. They must provide evidence which is not just definitional (I think they were referring to the "pedestrian" comment). So far, they think, the "Boston was legit" side is winning.

Do they know about running? Sports fixing? Or did they just listen to whoever shouted the loudest? I am not saying their point of view is not interesting, but having a little background would really help. And not being a USA patriot.

Good point about people commenting on an area of expertise that they may have not studied much if at all. I remember one time I made a number of posts saying that "Jackie Kennedy killed JFK" (it is right on the Zapruder video if you want to look). Of course I had studied it for years and was familier with other theories so I could back up what I said. Anyhow someone posted a link with a psychic that had NEVER SEEN the Zapruder film and admitted she knew NOTHING about the assassination but she claimed that the security guards did it! It is amazing how the less people know the bigger experts they are.

So what do people think the makeup of posters in this thread are?

There are two types of responses:

-Those supporting the conspiracy that it was fixed

-Those saying the race was legit

Of those saying that it was fixed, I think 90% of them are trolling for responses and really don't believe it.

And most of those debating the fix was in seem to be taking them seriously.

Does the OP really believe there may have been a fix or is he the lead troll on this great thread?

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:

You Boston Marathon Truthers are making the extraordinary claim. If you can back it up with comparative evidence instead of bare conclusions, someone might take you seriously.

Not unusual, huh?

How usual is it for there to be breakaways from the field of elites at a 2:10 pace before the half-way mark of a major marathon?

That's what I thought. More bare assertions without any comparative evidence. You're like a parody of an unhinged conspiracy theorist, thinking that a conclusion will become true if you just repeat it over and over.

Star wrote:

So what do people think the makeup of posters in this thread are?

There are two types of responses:

-Those supporting the conspiracy that it was fixed

-Those saying the race was legit

Of those saying that it was fixed, I think 90% of them are trolling for responses and really don't believe it.

And most of those debating the fix was in seem to be taking them seriously.

Does the OP really believe there may have been a fix or is he the lead troll on this great thread?

Thank you for your opinion as to "90% of them are trolling for responses and really don't believe it". Do you have something to back that up? Or are you simply pulling that out of your ass?

I am interested because I am the OFFICIAL score keeper here and if you can do more than talk out your ass then you might be extremely helpful in keeping score.

Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Not unusual, huh?

How usual is it for there to be breakaways from the field of elites at a 2:10 pace before the half-way mark of a major marathon?

That's what I thought. More bare assertions without any comparative evidence. You're like a parody of an unhinged conspiracy theorist, thinking that a conclusion will become true if you just repeat it over and over.

That's what I thought. A random attempted insult (that you likely think is rather clever) with zero substance coupled with complete avoidance of the question.

Most Convincing!

Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:

I think a better analogy would be this:

You: "I don't think this is ketchup. I think it's red mind control sauce formulated by the CIA."

Other Person: "Why do you say that? It's in a ketchup bottle. Why don't you just assume it's ketchup?"

You: "Don't you notice that this ketchup seems thicker than usual ketchup? Also, have you noticed that the price of ketchup has gone up recently?"

Other Person: "So besides those observations, do you have any evidence that the ketchup is actually formulated by the CIA?"

You: "I don't need evidence! It's just common sense!"

Rock on, ConspiracyTheorist.

Except no one's talking about the CIA or mind control or other worldly explanations.

We're talking about sports fixing, which is a fairly common thing. Something that happens in horse racing and tennis...hell even NBA refs.

So you're hyperbole about how anyone that thinks it's fixed must be some truther hiding in a basement worried about black choppers is so over the top that it doesn't even make sense for you to entertain this conversation further. You just already know everything that happened.

Instead the rest of us will be sitting her like normal people speculating, giving our opinions and having a conversation about sports.

You're the weirdo running in saying "yea yea, dude you think that lady took the subway in the marathon? HA, where's your tin foil hat?! lolololololol Guys, look at me degrading other people to prove how superior I am intellectually!!"

What's wrong with discussing the possibility of a fixed race that seems to have gone far better than anyone could have predicted for both sponsors and the WOOO MURICA!!! crowd?

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Not unusual, huh?

How usual is it for there to be breakaways from the field of elites at a 2:10 pace before the half-way mark of a major marathon? Oh, and the guy breaking away clearly has credentials (please don't go for this 'old' nonsense when he is the reigning 4th place finisher at the Olympics).

Why don't you get back to me on how usual that is?

I'll be waiting.

Still waiting by the way.

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Not unusual, huh?

How usual is it for there to be breakaways from the field of elites at a 2:10 pace before the half-way mark of a major marathon? Oh, and the guy breaking away clearly has credentials (please don't go for this 'old' nonsense when he is the reigning 4th place finisher at the Olympics).

Why don't you get back to me on how usual that is?

I'll be waiting.

Still waiting by the way.

Yeah, you're waiting for me to disprove your speculation that Meb's victory was the result of a conspiracy and not a genuine running competition. Like I said, you're like a parody of a conspiracy theorist.

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Not unusual, huh?

How usual is it for there to be breakaways from the field of elites at a 2:10 pace before the half-way mark of a major marathon? Oh, and the guy breaking away clearly has credentials (please don't go for this 'old' nonsense when he is the reigning 4th place finisher at the Olympics).

Why don't you get back to me on how usual that is?

I'll be waiting.

Yea, this is one of those things that make the race just goofy.

Pristine conditions. American men are PR'ing left and right, Kenyan women are setting course records and what are foreign men doing?

Well they started off the day slowly 31 min 10k's. Downhill, easy part of the course. Then a world class elite runner with a rabbit "breaks away" at 2:10 pace and they guys that can run 2:04 let him gap them by a minute knowing full well that the hard hills are coming because "they planned to reel him in later". Then they all run mediocre or worse races while everyone around them is PR'ing.

And the explanation is...

Well those world class runners were just dumb, they thought he'd die racing away from them at 2:10 pace like that on the easy part of the course!!!!

It just defies running logic. Maybe one runner made a tactical error, but the entire and specific group all make the most colossal error we possible?

Trolls or real conspiracy theorists, who knows, but this board is sure filled with whack jobs. Little unnerving to think one or two of you may be lurking about at the next local road race I attend.

[quote]ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Instead the rest of us will be sitting her like normal people speculating, giving our opinions and having a conversation about sports.

LOL. I think Star is right. 90% of you must be trolling. Although I think the trolling is inappropriate given that you're discrediting the victory of someone who has faced some nasty comments in some other threads, I've got to hand it to you for reeling folks in. You've got some skills.

Great point. There have been a lot of studies done regarding being an "insider" and an "outsider" to a discourse community (forum w/ the pretext of being runners). Sometimes an outsider will see things that insiders don't but sometimes outsiders will miss obvious discourse cues (trolling, Rupp jokes, etc.)

In this case, being an insider myself, I think that my students were right on with a lot of their assumptions. In the case of the debate (I am not a debate coach but I did it in college) the burden of proof does indeed rest w/ the conspiracy theorists. They are basically saying, "It was a fix and I am going to believe so until someone proves it wasn't." This is faulty. The evidence that has been brought forth is only a retelling what is public knowledge through a frame of conspiracy. It sucks, but to make a case the conspiracy theorists will have to go interview athletes, race directors, sponsors, coaches, agents, etc. until documentation arises.

It is a lot of work but if you claim it was fixed you must be willing to see it through.

BTW, we had some lol moments reading this. Pure gold =)

Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:

Some Things Should Be Obvious wrote:

Still waiting by the way.

Yeah, you're waiting for me to disprove your speculation that Meb's victory was the result of a conspiracy and not a genuine running competition. Like I said, you're like a parody of a conspiracy theorist.

And once more, oh-so-clever attempts to insult. Zero substance.

And by the way, I am not "waiting for (you) to disprove (my) speculation that Meb's victory was the result of a conspiracy and not a genuine running competition." I thought your reading comprehension level might have allowed you to see this.

Simple question remains: "How usual is it for there to be breakaways from the field of elites at a 2:10 pace before the half-way mark of a major marathon? Oh, and the guy breaking away clearly has credentials (please don't go for this 'old' nonsense when he is the reigning 4th place finisher at the Olympics)."

After all, it was your claim that there was nothing unusual about how the race unfolded.

So, I'll still be waiting for some substance from you. Not with much hope, of course. You have shown your true colors already. But I am hopeful you can do better.

Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:

[quote]ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Instead the rest of us will be sitting her like normal people speculating, giving our opinions and having a conversation about sports.

LOL. I think Star is right. 90% of you must be trolling. Although I think the trolling is inappropriate given that you're discrediting the victory of someone who has faced some nasty comments in some other threads, I've got to hand it to you for reeling folks in. You've got some skills.

Why does it not surprise me that you identify with 'Star', who has been called out as having pulled numbers out of his ass. Birds of a feather and all that.

Do you have anything of substance to say? Anything at all? Have you ever had anything of substance to say? Are you even familiar with the concept of substance as opposed to insults?

Holy crap. If "Some Things Should Be Obvious" and "ConspiracyTheorist" aren't trolls, then they are actually crazy. It is disturbing to realize that people like this are in the running community.

Chooomsky wrote:

...They (conspiracy theorists) are basically saying, "It was a fix and I am going to believe so until someone proves it wasn't." This is faulty. The evidence that has been brought forth is only a retelling what is public knowledge through a frame of conspiracy. It sucks, but to make a case the conspiracy theorists will have to go interview athletes, race directors, sponsors, coaches, agents, etc. until documentation arises.

It is a lot of work but if you claim it was fixed you must be willing to see it through.

BTW, we had some lol moments reading this. Pure gold =)

I am sure you must only be trolling. Well done by the way.

Or did you really think that those followers of the sport who have seen something that does not look right are going to dedicate their lives to proving it by tracking down and interviewing athletes, etc.? Surely you must be joking.

Oh, but if they are not going to dedicate their lives to this pursuit then they must surely be wrong, no? Or at least, they should just STFU. After all, if they truly believed what they were saying and perhaps were right then obviously they would quit their jobs tomorrow and spend the rest of their days traipsing about the world trying to score interviews with these athletes.

No?

Like I said, surely you are trolling. Nobody could be that stupid.