So Jeff, do you believe in the PED concept?
So Jeff, do you believe in the PED concept?
seoulpurpose wrote:
There was a thread here a while back about what happened to Wang when she and many others left Ma's army after 1996 (I've been searching for it but can't find it at all.) The thread had links to an article which quoted her a lot. No revelations or drug use, but the regimen she and others endured under him was appalling, and the story of what happened when she left the group deserves sympathy. Ma was an abusive animal. She was never the same runner after that, and still suffered physical effects from her training. If anyone cares to look, this thread has to be somewhere...
Nope. Wang left coach Ma in 1994 and went training with a different coach. She also was sick for several months after she left Ma, most likely from over training and recovering from it.
Her performance in Atlanta (2 medals) had very little to do with Ma.
She also might be a lot more talented than Radcliffe as when she first appeared on the racing scene she won the race with no training or any knowledge about running/racing. The next year she went to a school with national training camp. But was discharged the very next semester because the coaches there complained about her lack of knowledge in distance running. Luckily a coach saw her talent and took her in.
Wang has been living in the states for some time. She married a Chinese American (2nd marriage) in Colorado and gave birth to a child there.
like paula it is simply blood doping !!!!
epo doesnt work aswell for women .
assuming wasnt holding back in stuttgart 1993,
why would she as had world stage .
which was august 21 and ran 30mins 49 secs.
and chinese women dominated 3000m final also
at champianships .
so by the time get back to china gives them the guts
of 2 weeks before nationals and epo isnt going to raise
hct in enough time to run times all women did.
had high hct as high as could for worlds from epo.
then how did they get such drop in times by sept 8
so correction not steroids ,used but still
what are they going to do in 2 weeks where
need whole season to build speed with them .
and would of been tested for them at worlds
so had to be off them way before them.
i have yet to see any numbers on how high epo will
get womens hct and obviously not that high ,
so blood transfusions are the difference to get
up to crazy hct like men .
and ma was never going to do this away from china
and it just dont have means in africa and didnt
think nessary once had epo at disposal.
so combination of epo and blood transfusions
that lethal combo for women what eastern europeans didnt have ,for men
not nessary as epo will get hct as high as transfusions
will .
BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS !!!! the difference ,go ask paula.
Did she get sick , ala like seb coe did.
and know what he was up to.
sick of hearing they trained harder ,who wouldnt
train as hard as could ,if could .
they trained hard because of epo .
if only seb had epo !!!!!
Good point, I have never heard of anyone getting sick before. Very suspicious.
Well Jeff, do you believe in the PED concept?
What is a PED concept?
Is belief the right word?
rekrunner wrote:
What is a PED concept?
Is belief the right word?
If you prefer the word belief to the 'concept' of so called 'performance enhancing drugs'
It's more about the human obsession with subtances than real science.
I don't prefer 'belief' the word at all. It seems like framing it as a question of faith should be rejected.The concept of PEDs is something that can be fully characterized by measurements, and observation. Belief might enter the discussion in the sense of removing psychological barriers or discussing placebo effects. There is certainly a promotional and marketing aspect for many drugs and supplements with questionable performance enhancing benefits. But these can't be used to deny that significant PEDs exist, and have been used, especially for women, like the Chinese group under discussion.
jono wrote:
If you prefer the word belief to the 'concept' of so called 'performance enhancing drugs'
It's more about the human obsession with subtances than real science.
rekrunner, both the concept and the questioning of the concept are rhetorical.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
domestic pro wrote:Hmmm, what do you suppose is more likely, that the top 7 performances of all time came in a 24 hour span by a handful of women who never came close to those times again...or they ran 100m short of 3000, which coincidentally matches up with their best times through 2900m outside of that 24 hour period?
The next fastest time outside of that magical mystery tour around the Beijing track is a full 15 seconds slower. Maybe the distance they ran is somewhat questionable, what do you think?
Of course they ran the full distance. This wasn't some locally run timing company and some locked down, not-available-for-public secret meet.
If they had run these times in private, without an audience and with in house timers, then you might have a point, like King Jung Il's golf score.
But they didn't. There was a stadium full of observers (not all of them Chinese) and timers from Switzerland recording the results. There is no way that the timers and every single foreign and domestic observer is on some conspiracy that they ran it short:
"We have no doubt the marks themselves are legitimate, even the 10,000," said Jeff Hollobaugh, managing editor of Track & Field News. "We had a correspondent there. Omega timers were there. She did run 25 laps. We have great skepticism about what might be going on there, but as far as the actual marks, they are legitimate."
-John Crumpacker, SF Examiner
September 26, 1993
Everything you're saying makes sense, but I'm left puzzled why T&FN doesn't include any of the Chinese marks from the 1993 or 1997 China games in its all-time top 10 lists. [and those T&FN lists include plenty of marks that have heavy clouds of doping suspicions hanging over them.] Do you know why T&FN made that choice?
dkny64 wrote:
Everything you're saying makes sense, but I'm left puzzled why T&FN doesn't include any of the Chinese marks from the 1993 or 1997 China games in its all-time top 10 lists. [and those T&FN lists include plenty of marks that have heavy clouds of doping suspicions hanging over them.] Do you know why T&FN made that choice?
They don't have a good reason.
Her and Qu Yunxia were known as the 'chemical sisters'
Coached by good ol' Ma Junren who was a known PED supplier.
He also banged his female athletes.
I see that T&FN has joined the thread.
has she been American you would be defending her and calling her the GOT...hypocrite. you have no proof. Why are you not calling Gale Rupp or Jenny Simpson doped? or what you think they're clean? This chick was never caught, so her records are legit. Now if you have proof then by all means bring it forward. Otherwise STFU. Thanks
1/10 Poor attempt at the 'faux outrage' bit.
Maybe Wang wasn't a doper, she just had blood of steel and heart of lion.
Jeez folks, talk about hiding in plain sight...Junxia actually had a wang, and was just another 8:06/29:32 guy!
not that I don't think the times are questionable (especially given the way the race was supposedly run - out in 15:05, back in 14:26? I understand negative splitting, but that's a bit extreme... if it was more like 14:55-14:36 it would be much more believable to me), I think one thing to keep in mind is that Wang Junxia's 10k WR is right about where it should be considering Dibaba's 5k WR and Defar's 5k #2 AT performance: 70.87/lap vs. 68.09/lap is 96.08%, and it should be right around 96.0%.
So while it might be unlikely that it was legit, it is possible that it was - or at least as legit as Dibaba and Defar are.