Awesome Jakob Ingebrigtsen profile in The Times: When I'm done, I want there to be no doubt I'm the GOAT.

Out of the last 200 posts, 79 are by Armstronglivs.
LOL

What would Jakob actually need to do to dethrone Bekele? I think Jakob can grab both the 3k and 5k world records when he switches his training away from focusing on the mile, considering how easily he took down the 2 mile world record.

I don't think he's going to grab the mile or 1500 world record, but if he gets the 1500 gold in Paris then he's up in elite 1500/mile company.

I think it all depends on how he's going to perform in the 10k and half marathon, and I doubt he's going to run cross country. Is Jakob going to run the marathon, and if so, what times could he run? If Jakob runs a sub 60 half, can he challenge Bashir Abdis European record in the marathon at mid 2:03?

I like that approach. We could agree, for a day maybe, that Bekele is the GOAT right now, and then look at what needs to be done to outperform him clearly, as Inge wants to leave no doubt. If Jakob won't do or excel in cross country, that will be even harder.

Bekele got:

3 Oly golds

5 World golds

4 World records, 2 thereof in meaningful distances that stood for over a decade each

2 Marathon majors wins

11 World XC golds

I won't count their silvers and world indoor and African and European golds and diamond league wins etc.

Inge got:

1 Oly gold

2 World golds

3 World records, all in non-Olympic disciplines

So, a long way to go, especially if there mustn't be any doubt at the end. Not impossible though. Outdoing Bekele's Oly and World golds will be the "easiest" part imho.

if Ingy can get an olympic gold from 1500 through 10000, that is a major notch in his belt, that combined with some other things could be considered to surpass Bekele without having any cross success.

Something like 5 total olympic golds, along 5 world golds--going 1500-10000, along with 2 olympic distance world records gives him a fair argument. people will disagree. But it would be a fair argument. Maybe throw a 57:xx half in there for good measure.

If he truly wants to be the undisputed GOAT, picking up a title in world cross along the way would certainly help, just so he can say that he could win on all surfaces. It's still possible, but like you said much harder without cross. To reach GOAT status without it you need a career like Haile G's, he never really did anything in cross other than podium, but he had insane range coming within striking distance of El Guerrouj's indoor 1500 WR and also having the WR marathon at one point. 27 WRs and periods of absolute dominance on the track and roads put Haile in the GOAT discussion even without XC, and Jakob would need to be similarly dominant on the track and roads to surpass Bekele's career.

And all in response to you and your buddies.

There is a strong argument for Bekele being the greatest all-round distance runner, because of his achievements, range and longevity. However, I recall his defeat by El G over the 5k at Athens 2004 and it suggested to me that the greatest md specialist of that era was possibly better than the greatest all-rounder over one of Bekele's favoured distances - and yet it was not one of El G's best events.

On another point, Bekele made it clear that for Farah to claim his crown he not only needed to be the double Olympic champion over the 5k and 10k, he needed to take Bekele's 5k and 10k world records (which Farah never did).

espn.co.uk

Farah needs world record to be great - Bekele

Mo Farah has to break the 5,000 or 10,000 metres world record to be considered an all-time great, according to Kenenisa Bekele.

Open link

The same point surely applies to Jakob; to be one of the all-time greats and attain Bekele status he has not only to achieve Olympic golds in his best distances but also the world marks for his main distances - in his case, the 1500/mile and the 5k.

He has to drop 1.15 seconds to claim the 1500m world record, 3 seconds at 3k but just 1 second from his last 3000m in the 2M, and 13 seconds in the 5000m. I can see him doing all of those. He hasn't run a 5000m for time yet. His 3k best was the day after a 3:43 mile. He may not get any of these if unhealthy. But let's not pretend that 1.15 seconds in the 1500m is out of reach for a 23 year old. My prediction is that he gets all of them within the next two years.

As far as I know you are rather positive on Jakob but here you are too pessimistic in my opinion.

You say Jakob can take the 3000m and 5000m WRs WHEN HE SWITCHES HIS TRAINING AWAY FROM THE MILE.

I have stated for years that Jakob´s training always has been more suited for long distance running than the mile. Jakob has also himself at several occasions recently said the same, latest in the article which started this thread.

And: Jakob would possibly have taken the 3000m WR last year if he had run this distance in Paris instead of the 2 mile.

He could possibly also have broken the WR in the 5000m if a serious trial had been set up when he was in his 2mile/ 2000m WB/ WR shape. Don´t you think it would bepossible for him to run just under 60.5 per lap in a 5000m if he could run high 58 laps in the 2 mile?

He could possibly have broken the mile record in Brüssel if he had run this distance instead of the 2000m. He was just over half a second away in Eugene under suboptimal conditions (jetlag, wind, poor pacing and more).

He will also take the 1500m WR if he overcomes his injury problems because he will continue to improve. I think he could have gone sub 3:27 last year under optimum conditions so he was less than a seconds away.

Longer distances: Don´t you trust Jakob´s own evaluation of his abilities here?

I think people (especially the haters) will get a shock when Jakob runs his first competitive 10000m and HM. Sub 26:30 in the 10000m and sub 58 in the HM (in time trials).

Why do you think Jakob considers HM to be his best distance?

Because of his TRESHOLD PACE which he - opposite you and me - knows on decimals. So he knows which pace he can hold for approximately an hour. I guess the pace is about 23-24 km/hour.

He passed 20 km/hour years ago and as you know he has improved a lot on the longer distances the last years so his endurance must have improved accordingly.

This is Armstrong's sort of "reasoning". Not mine. For sure it's completely nonsense.

He will come and deny this, but it's exactly what he has done here and in previous threads.

Okay, if not Bekele, who statistically has a better resume combined on the track, xc, and the roads? I just laid out stats why Bekele's career is the overall GOAT career, if you disagree please provide stats as to who is better

You do you.

I agree with you, what I meant was switching his focus away from the mile, not so much the training. But I'd assume he's going to up his mileage once he starts focusing more on the 5k and longer

At this point it feels like the main bottleneck is just the number of races he has to run to cover so many distances and him not getting injured.

For me, Bekele and Gebrselassie are the two greatest ever, with the enormous xc success giving the nod to Bekele (but closer than probably most others).

Got it, I must've misread your previous post, that's my take as well. I find it crazy Bekele's entire career spans longer than Jakob's entire life, and he's still going! Jakob could be the GOAT someday, but he's got a looooong road ahead of him and many more victories to make it happen

Apparently Jakob only eat, drink, sleep and train in his his life. He is not worried by anything else (no studies, no job).

Should we consider that as part of being GOAT?

One thing Jakob does have going for him is that Bekele's track-running prime was relatively short. It was just 2003-2009. That being said, you need World Records to match his greatness. And to me it doesn't really matter if you run faster than his 5,000 time or 10,000 time. Because of the superspikes it's even more important that ever where you stand in the era times-wise and in terms of titles. Another aspect of Bekele's greatness was XC and then a good deal of huge performances on the roads. We'll see if Jakob hits the roads because he doesn't seem interested in going against top competition in XC.

If Jakob first runs a fast track 10000m (which we don’t know if he can) he may very well engage in a not too hilly Worlds xc just for the merit (and the fun of it)…

I agree in the first half of your post. But 10k / half marathon -I don’t know how Jakob (based on his experience and feelings from his training) can know anything about where his talent is… So I think he’s guessing and hoping (just like so many of us) -can’t imagine what kind of interval sessions he has done that says anything about half marathon capability… Saying that, he may very well guess right of course -if he does I think (bearing no crucial injuries) the sky is the limit for young Ingebrigtsen. Exciting times…