Only three were dominant. It isn't surprising they had other good runners. They still do.
We get it loud and clear. They are white.
No. They were fast. Bob Hayes was fast - and likely clean. There are many fast Kenyans but unfortunately we can't tell now whether it's also because they dope.
No, I didn't think 1996 was 1988. But 2022 is far worse than either. More recent data than 2019 is the continuous stream of Kenyan busts since. I wonder what you think threads like these are about?
These threads are about 100 things to 100 people.
You did try to project a 1988 estimate about Olympic power sports (from a lawyer) onto the 1996 Olympics.
In this instance you are responding to me asking "What about Russia?" to Coevett claiming "Doping is clearly not as rampant elsewhere as it in in East Africa,"
Apparently you are doing this without any Russian data.
For 2022, at the AIU website I can count 11 Kenyans and 11 Russians (excluding the non-doping violation of Whereabouts Failures).
But suppose the increased scrutiny in Kenya has increased Kenyan busts above Russia. The high number of busts are still not enough to compare the relative proportion of nationwide prevalence of doping, as a percentage of the athlete population, to other countries, or to the global average. You need a denominator and a numerator.
But "suppose" this, and "suppose" that - mere speculation without evidence. You will try anything to minimize doping.
You did try to project a 1988 estimate about Olympic power sports (from a lawyer) onto the 1996 Olympics.
In this instance you are responding to me asking "What about Russia?" to Coevett claiming "Doping is clearly not as rampant elsewhere as it in in East Africa,"
Apparently you are doing this without any Russian data.
For 2022, at the AIU website I can count 11 Kenyans and 11 Russians (excluding the non-doping violation of Whereabouts Failures).
But suppose the increased scrutiny in Kenya has increased Kenyan busts above Russia. The high number of busts are still not enough to compare the relative proportion of nationwide prevalence of doping, as a percentage of the athlete population, to other countries, or to the global average. You need a denominator and a numerator.
But "suppose" this, and "suppose" that - mere speculation without evidence. You will try anything to minimize doping.
Lol -- I was supposing you and Coevett were right.
No, you weren't. We are never on the same page about doping.
You win. I concede.
Kenyan busts are still fewer than Russian busts. As you said, any supposition to the contrary is "mere speculation without evidence".
Comparing Kenya favorably to Russia is like saying your local tyrant isn't Stalin.
Next to Russia, who has a blanket ban, Kenya has the most suspended athletes in the sport of athletics in the world. There are approximately 80 Kenyan athletes coming out of or, entering or somewhere in the middle of two to four-year provisional or unappealable bans. It is increasing. There are 30 just this year. As has been pointed out by commentators, it is a dumpster fire that is destroying the country's sporting reputation. But by all means console yourself that it hasn't quite yet reached the level of the only country to be banned in the world. It will come.
Kenyan busts are still fewer than Russian busts. As you said, any supposition to the contrary is "mere speculation without evidence".
Comparing Kenya favorably to Russia is like saying your local tyrant isn't Stalin.
Next to Russia, who has a blanket ban, Kenya has the most suspended athletes in the sport of athletics in the world. There are approximately 80 Kenyan athletes coming out of or, entering or somewhere in the middle of two to four-year provisional or unappealable bans. It is increasing. There are 30 just this year. As has been pointed out by commentators, it is a dumpster fire that is destroying the country's sporting reputation. But by all means console yourself that it hasn't quite yet reached the level of the only country to be banned in the world. It will come.
Now we are getting somewhere. This whole discussion was regarding the wishful statement "Doping is clearly not as rampant elsewhere", and it seems that you've agreed with me all along that of course it is as rampant elsewhere, and it is not that clear after all.
I don't put much stock in what commentators point out, or emotional descriptions like "dumpster fire" designed to sway the impressionable.
But if you want to put some stock in investigative reporting like that from the Sunday Times, then with respect to blood doping, Kenyan blood doping suspicion, as a percentage, was behind Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Greece, Morocco, Bulgaria, Bahrain, Belarus, Slovenia, Romania, and Brazil, during a period when they were dominant both on the track and on the road.
With respect to the marathon, only 1 in 9 World or Olympic medals were won by suspicious athletes, while 8 in 9 were won by athletes never suspicious for blood doping, making the marathon the cleanest distance event by far, with respect to powerful endurance enhancing drugs like EPO and methods like blood transfusions, designed to increase RBC.
Given that Kenya and Ethiopia came in below the global average, it's hard to for me to see any strong correlation between blood doping and national success on the world stage.
But maybe it's due to these naturally skinny athletes taking weight loss drugs, or some steroids that were popular worldwide as far back as the '70s.
Widespread doping is certainly a problem, but from the Sunday Times analysis, it seems mainly a problem of image and reputation.
Comparing Kenya favorably to Russia is like saying your local tyrant isn't Stalin.
Next to Russia, who has a blanket ban, Kenya has the most suspended athletes in the sport of athletics in the world. There are approximately 80 Kenyan athletes coming out of or, entering or somewhere in the middle of two to four-year provisional or unappealable bans. It is increasing. There are 30 just this year. As has been pointed out by commentators, it is a dumpster fire that is destroying the country's sporting reputation. But by all means console yourself that it hasn't quite yet reached the level of the only country to be banned in the world. It will come.
Now we are getting somewhere. This whole discussion was regarding the wishful statement "Doping is clearly not as rampant elsewhere", and it seems that you've agreed with me all along that of course it is as rampant elsewhere, and it is not that clear after all.
I don't put much stock in what commentators point out, or emotional descriptions like "dumpster fire" designed to sway the impressionable.
But if you want to put some stock in investigative reporting like that from the Sunday Times, then with respect to blood doping, Kenyan blood doping suspicion, as a percentage, was behind Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Greece, Morocco, Bulgaria, Bahrain, Belarus, Slovenia, Romania, and Brazil, during a period when they were dominant both on the track and on the road.
With respect to the marathon, only 1 in 9 World or Olympic medals were won by suspicious athletes, while 8 in 9 were won by athletes never suspicious for blood doping, making the marathon the cleanest distance event by far, with respect to powerful endurance enhancing drugs like EPO and methods like blood transfusions, designed to increase RBC.
Given that Kenya and Ethiopia came in below the global average, it's hard to for me to see any strong correlation between blood doping and national success on the world stage.
But maybe it's due to these naturally skinny athletes taking weight loss drugs, or some steroids that were popular worldwide as far back as the '70s.
Widespread doping is certainly a problem, but from the Sunday Times analysis, it seems mainly a problem of image and reputation.
No, we aren't getting anywhere. You remain where you always have been - in discussion with yourself. As you continue to show, no one works harder at avoiding what they find to be unpalatable realities.
Comparing Kenya favorably to Russia is like saying your local tyrant isn't Stalin.
Next to Russia, who has a blanket ban, Kenya has the most suspended athletes in the sport of athletics in the world.
Yes indeed. Even Athletics Kenya is worried, while some apologists here still pretend that doping is just average or so in Kenya:
"At this rate Kenya may not survive this year. The writing is on the wall: Kenya is facing a ban and its athletes will not be able to compete internationally," Korir told AFP.
And, btt, Kipchoge is concerned too:
Kipchoge, Kenya's world and Olympic marathon champion, voiced concern after three of his pacesetters in his record-breaking sub-two hour marathon race in Vienna in 2019, including training partner Philemon Kacheran, were suspended.
The level of doping in Kenya was, he said, an "embarrassment" and "immoral".
Kenya's athletics reputation is once again taking a pummelling after the suspension this year of an unusually large number of long distance runners for suspected doping.
